Morgunbladid reported today that the Icelandic government believes that resolving the IceSave dispute is the only way to be granted a loan from the IMF.
EU member states have been exerting pressure on Icelandic authorities to negotiate mutually agreeable terms with the UK and the Netherlands towards IceSave depositors, and all EU countries agreed that Iceland should not be given the IMF loan before the dispute is solved.
The EU representatives also disagree with Iceland’s approach that the deposits up to 3.5 million ISK should be secured by the state where the affected bank has its headquarters. Iceland follows the regulations of EEA countries, although it is not a member of the EU itself. The EU reacts by saying that according to the EU stipulations, Iceland should compensate the depositors as their accounts were under Landsbanki, but not the responsibility of foreign daughter companies.
The debt put on Icelandic tax payers’ shoulders might amount to 600 billion ISK – about 2 million per head.
Iceland will follow the regulations of EEA countries and pay the 2m isk per head
it is absolutely unexeptable not to honour the 20k euro guarantee and let a court decide because then we and other EEA countrys would be admitting that there was a possibility that peoples savings may not be safe, that is not acceptable.
i somehow exected this argument about the the contract to be used as leverage to get better interrests and terms for Iceland but this has been going on for far too long,
i dont worry about the 600bn isk we will have to pay
we already got that, the only thing we need is time to sell assets for a resonable price,
we cant waste anymore time on this, lots of people are hurt because of this, in Germany, Holland, UK and Iceland, the Icelandic government needs to finish this now,
we need to get rid of at least half of our government and all 3 centralbank directors
and have a election in the spring,
i would like to see at least 1 new political party
here in Iceland, im not sure i can vote for any of the current partys, we need to make sure nothing like this can ever happen again,
and also make sure that the rotten people i refer to above dont manage to sell assets for pennys to a group of people or companys related to themselfes, we have seen that happen,
inspite of the damage caused by Brown and Darling
this is basically the Icelandic governments fault
for running a infamously stupid and destructive
finacial policy, David Oddson is the mastermind behind that, he will be the first to go
“I must disagree in the strongest possible terms.
As far as I can see, it is quite the opposite. We do NOT hold private citizens responsible for the actions of their goverments.
For example, it is widely accepted that the US invasion of Iraq was made on false premises, and that the goverment of the US deliberatly obscured the facts. Yet still, despite the hundreds of thousands of people dead since then, I do not know a single person who would accuse random US citizens of being mass murderers!”
You have a very strange opinion of democracy, in fact you don’t believe in it at all.
I would accuse anyone who supported the Invasion of Iraq as being directly responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of people.
Thats how it works – support the government and you support what they do.
I just need to know one thing and that is who on this site has actually lost money..
Looks like it might be sorted now:
“We will complete a program with Iceland next Wednesday at the board” meeting, IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss- Kahn said at a press conference after G-20 talks in Washington. “We now have an agreement.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aDNZU8KY5mAw&refer=home
Right, then I have only one option.
Iceland air or Iceland Express.
Gray
So was the poor German and British fishermen the victims of the cod war? there is a big difference between Icelands 200 mile and the 1000+ miles the Germans and British came to fish .
I dont know about German fishermen …But the British Government ended up Paying over 30 million pounds in redundancy money only it took over 25years of litigation forthe families to get the money.
Maybe the ICESAVE money could take so long to pay out?
I understand there is a lot of bad feeling but do you realise what all your sarcasm is doing for any English people who may be living here in Iceland…
Gray, Germany said: “But imho it’s been a widely accepted rule for decades now that people are indeed responsible for the actions of their governments, in the regard that nations have to make good for their wrongdoings, and that this has consequences on the people, regardless if they voted for that governement or not.”
I must disagree in the strongest possible terms.
As far as I can see, it is quite the opposite. We do NOT hold private citizens responsible for the actions of their goverments.
For example, it is widely accepted that the US invasion of Iraq was made on false premises, and that the goverment of the US deliberatly obscured the facts. Yet still, despite the hundreds of thousands of people dead since then, I do not know a single person who would accuse random US citizens of being mass murderers!
No more than anyone would imagine holding random French people responsible for their goverments support of the Hutu regime in Rwanda in the 1994 massacres.
Or indeed hold UK citizens responsible for UK participation in the Iraq invasion, bloody sunday, etc.
Civilized people do not behave in such a way. Shouting out that all Icelandic citizens are thieves becuse they may have voted for the goverment in power is no different from accosting US of UK pensioners on holliday for their goverments actions in Iraq.
I.e. utterly unacceptable.
And for those of us watching from uninvolved nations, it does not strengthen the case of the people behaving in such a manner.
“If you read all the news people were rushing to take out savings from the ice banks after a mistaken comment from mr darling,”
In the week or so before the Icesave accounts were frozen there was a *lot* of talk about the safety of Icelandic banks, but not by politicians.
There was a run on Icesave, hence the freezing of the UK accounts by the Icelandic government. That freeze happened on 7th October and Darling made his “Believe it or not” comment on the 8th. Therefore, his statement in no way affected Icesave/Landsbanki.
“because at the begining he forgot to mention that Iceland said they would honour all accounts”
He actually said that Iceland *would not* honour the guarantee on all accounts. There was a lot of discussion in the week following as to whether he was right or not. He has been proved correct by the events of the past few days – so it’s taken the Icelanic government five weeks to say that they will honour the guarantees.
Codman, your points don’t make any sense.
“And Northern Rock was bailed out by the UK and the guarantee upheld, which is the total opposite of what Haarde, Oddsson and their gang did to Glitnir, Landsbanki and Kaupthing. No customer lost his savings at Northern Rock”.
Codmans simple point was, NR was a totally failed bank with most dubious reckless banking policy but had large taxpayers base to buy up the bad debts created by the UK equivalent of investment *ankers.
The UK taxpayers do lose, have you not checked the value of the GBP.
Print more money = currency loses value.
“Until 1976 when we finally got our 200 mile fishing limits, british fishermen raped our seas for many years.”
Before 1976, it wasn’t your seas, so nobody could rape them. And while I understand and support the extended fishing zone around Iceland, I have to say it started on shaky legal ground, and the way Iceland conducted its quest for a change of international treaties was far from optimal.
“who say that every Icelander should be responsible for their goverments actions (and who would probably be horrified if anyone suggested they take responsibility for their own goverments actions in africa, Ireland, etc)”
Well, of course there is some double standard at work, agreed. Nobody is that neutral, and fingerpointing at others is much easier than taking a hard look in the mirror. But imho it’s been a widely accepted rule for decades now that people are indeed responsible for the actions of their governments, in the regard that nations have to make good for their wrongdoings, and that this has consequences on the people, regardless if they voted for that governement or not. Sure, it often takes years or decades before any guilt is accepted ny national officials, and still even then this is always followed by an attempt to compensate for the damage, but this doesn’t say that this isn’t a strong ethical ideal.
So, sry, whereistan, but to answer your question, I can only say “yes, I think you have to contribute to helping the victims, too”. And imho it’s a shame that Haarde had to be pressurized into accepting that he can’t simply shrug off the responsibility for the Icesave victims. He should have been much more forecoming, presenting a real plan, or at least some ideas, instead of engaging in phony arguing that Icelanders stand by their obligations and guarantees, but see no way of really doing so in regard to the amount of damage. This was pathetic.
Ok gray but then Northern rock didn´t have the UK government totally lead people to distrust the bank which lead to the downfall..If you read all the news people were rushing to take out savings from the ice banks after a mistaken comment from mr darling,because at the begining he forgot to mention that Iceland said they would honour all accounts,thus everyone fell into panic and consequently the fall of the banking system..
@FilthyPoor
I understand what is happening. But the way you described the situation it seems to me that my description is correct: the only thing so far crumbling is the easy money related industry. The curse of iceland is, that such industry (even excluding banking) obviously makes up large part of economy, disproportionally large even to other developed nations.
What I am trying to explain is that recession in banking, building and similar things is natural and it just means that the things are going back to normal. I feel sorry for you, but by all means, the pace of iceland growth in those (“easy money”) sectors was unsustainable and relied on ever increasing lending of banks and population. It would stop with a severe recession even if there would be no worldwide financial crisis – as every ponzi scheme eventually collapses. There
In other countries other industries are in trouble: automakers, computer services, and so on, because the crisis has hit the real sector.
It does not matter if the collapse of the “easy money” economy is hurting terribly, it is something that was due anyway. Is the cod fishing in iceland affected? Alumuinium smelting? I bet not…
Codman, your points don’t make any sense. Lehman Brothers is in legal bankruptcy, and there isn’t any discrimination of creditors in that case, very much unlike the broken Icelandic banks. And Iceland didn’t get into Kreppa because of Lehman, or the US mortgage bubble. Your bank managers built a nice bubble of their own, depending on attracting more and more customers in order to use their money to pay for the high interest rates for the deposits. It was a Ponzi Scheme that couldn’t go on much longer.
And Northern Rock was bailed out by the UK and the guarantee upheld, which is the total opposite of what Haarde, Oddsson and their gang did to Glitnir, Landsbanki and Kaupthing. No customer lost his savings at Northern Rock.
Looks like you haven’t really paid attention to those news, right?
@ bc123a
It is strange to downplay the secerity of the situation by stating that only those in the banking, business, and building industries are losing jobs. Everything is crumbling in Iceland…the unsure state and severe devaluation of the krona is also affecting all imports, as well as companies who import, and those retailing those products, with a HUGE markup on products it affects all rungs on the ladder. Things are crumbling, and whether or not it lives up to your opinion of a crisis people are losing jobs in banking/investments, building, shipping, imports, wholesale, retail, etc. These job losses ovviously decrease public spending (which is in fact happening in huge percentages)which is greatly affecting the services industry. And no, the rise in tourism is not enough to fill the voids in most service areas. So, bc123a, what else is left? People ARE losing jobs in nearly all sections of the market, really. I understand your point was that it is not yet a crisis in Iceland. I would also be hesitant to call it a crisis as of yet, but the stage is set, and NO the job losses are not limited to a few industries.
Personally I might fall into the “easy money” category you mentioned. I am a Canadian HVAC Mechanic living and working in Iceland. I have been laid off (shortly after losing a lot of money). This country and its residents are in a VERY VERY bad situation over here. I understand the bitterness but cannot understand how folks are directing this at the Icelandic people in general (not directed at bc123a necessarily). It seems our news in each country is a contradiction of the others. Icelanders in general are good people and desperately want their neighbours to be taken care of, as a result of their greedy business sectors wreckless behaviour. We need some common understanding on all sides here folks.
Regards
On Nov 14, 2008, Peter – London said:
“The difference is that you voted for the people responsible and, as a nation, profited from the dubious banking practices they allowed.”
With that logic, the UK voted for Labour, the UK Gov allowed those banks to operate, The UK regulator scoured through the compuslary quartery financial reports from those banks and gave his unreserved approval. The banks have invested the billions in the UK economy. You have profited from those billions invested in the UK economy, which they say were twice the amount deposited with Icesave.
Without question it is a priority that savers have their deposits repayed without question and with the minimum of delay, unaffected by the activites of the countries finally agreeing on how to do this and eventual liquidisation of the assets.
The reality is, the taxpayers profit is a debt, approx 80% property and 20% consumer debt (not written off).
Plus taking on vapourised debts of large investors lost in a mire of complicated financial dealings.
tja…this will never be forgotten.
I don’t have a car, I don’t have an apartment, I rent,
I lost my savings on the banks, and then you want me to pay up the debts of a private company AND mortage my future children?.
Still I belive I’m one of the lucky one’s here in Iceland, funny eh.
Sigh.
Plenty of people are going to be trading with Iceland. We have traded with them for a thousand years. I think we know what they are like, quite a bit better than the children on the internet.
In all liklihood, it is us in Scandinavia who are going to have to sort it out eventually. “Eventually” meaning “When Iceland have reformed their system enough that we can be confident the money isn’t just going to vanish into a black hole”
In the meantime, the sad fact is that most people are responding emotionally, and not to the facts. Basically, most people in the street believe this is Britain and Gordon Browns fault.
And those who do look for the facts encounter a lot of emotional reinforcement of their preconceptions.
On the web, there are people who believe call all Icelanders thieves, who speak as though they are expecting a revolution or an out-of-turn election, and who say that every Icelander should be responsible for their goverments actions (and who would probably be horrified if anyone suggested they take responsibility for their own goverments actions in africa, Ireland, etc)
It doesn’t damage Icelands reputation when the critics are so obviously unable to adher to civilized standards.
It just makes people think you are wogs, I am afraid.
Icewhere?
You said…
If 300,000 Brits had invaded Iceland and stolen 4 Billion quid you would have screamed and shouted like stuck pigs about bullying aggressors.
Until 1976 when we finally got our 200 mile fishing limits, british fishermen raped our seas for many years . How much was stolen from US then?
Stan
“Yes, Fishy, thanks much. I assume Iceland politicians will change/lower the restrictions on foreign property ownership, soon. Thanks again”
No Stan they wont, hell will freeze over before that happens,
every one keeps forgetting about the banks assets
they will cover most of the damage, this isnt the disaster some people think it is, in some ways even a good thing, believe it or not
Skari, we do have huge oil and gas deposits
but its 200 sea miles off shore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_989RgIys54
this is just a breeze, in a real storm waves can go up to 12 meters in the N-Atlandic
so its goin to take at least 3 years.
Fishy:”If you had in 2007 a 100% foreign loan by 2010 you could be in 75% negative equity.
Does that give you enough to go on .”
Although people in the UK won’t admit or believe it, that is not far from what will happen in the UK (-60% is quite possible).
Thats without foreign currency speculation – foreign currency loans are extremely rare in the UK because they, quite frankly, sheer madness even with the reasonable stable Pound.
Anyone who took a foreign currency loan at 100% in 2007 deserves everything they are going to get for being incredibly stupid and certifiably insane.
@Icewhere?
maybe you should add a picture of a starving baby and something about the hull fishermen to your rant.
and yes its true you squeal like a stuck pig.
//this is me spending my share of the british loot.
Icewhere?
First can you find me 300,000 hard working Brits?
Maybe you could rustle up a couple of million Hoodie Asbos to come and invade us …But we vikings would have no trouble dealing with them..
@ Icewhere Hello “NORTHERN ROCK” that was a good one eh! good job you have 58 million tax payers to bail you out
Yes, Fishy, thanks much. I assume Iceland politicians will change/lower the restrictions on foreign property ownership, soon. Thanks again.
Stan the man….
Some economist in Iceland predict house prices here to loose over 40% in the next 2 years.
Many people have home loans in foriegn curreny .
So for some could be loan amount has doubled and property value amost halfed .
If you had in 2007 a 100% foreign loan by 2010 you could be in 75% negative equity.
Does that give you enough to go on .
Whose talking now about being self centered and tunnel vision ….Changed the subject again from the LEHMAN BROS IN USA again have we what a surprise..
Hi Guys, lots of mouth – sounds like the spoiled yobs you see blaming everyone else for their misfortune “It wasn’t me and your horrid!” Lots of hardworking people lent Iceland a load of money at rates a lot lower than they should have and then Iceland unilaterally decided they won’t pay it back. If 300,000 Brits had invaded Iceland and stolen 4 Billion quid you would have screamed and shouted like stuck pigs about bullying aggressors. Wake up and admit it, you got caught with your hands in the till – so stop squealing and pay up!
When will house prices go way, way down, in price, in Iceland?
kam is trying to tell us the truth on the internet, shame on us for not listening.
buhu iceland is not sinking fast enough.
“”@Skari, Whatever. If you want to behave like an 8 year old…I can’t even be bothered to reply to any more of your comments. Looking at your other comments on this and other threads its pretty clear your just some childish troll.””
hahahaha look at this.
@Codman62
“what you don´t seem to realise is people may lose a few years savings but us over here may lose everything we have ever had including houses”
Prime example of selfish, self-centred and narcissistic line of thought. How typical.
You seem to think that the depositors in Icelandic banks don’t have the same problems. Maybe it escaped Iceland’s tunnel vision, but there’s a world wide recession going on.
And before you retort how it may be self-centred to “demand money” from poor little innocent Iceland, just ask yourself which government essentially caused a run on their banks by *refusing* to be lender of last resort and which government has refused to compensate as per international agreements.
Codman62:
Mary what you don´t seem to realise is people may lose a few years savings but us over here may lose everything we have ever had including houses.
The difference is that you voted for the people responsible and, as a nation, profited from the dubious banking practices they allowed.
Mary what you don´t seem to realise is people may lose a few years savings but us over here may lose everything we have ever had including houses.
Mary That reads to me as claptrap. can you please forward some example of
“some of them (although not all, of course) seem to be delighted by the thought of many 100s of 1000s of honest British, German and Dutch (not to mention those from other Nordic countries) savers losing their money because of the ineptitude of Iceland’s politicians”
and please don’t offer examples where an Icelander responds to immature trolling.
Yeah, Kam, I have to say I agree with your comments about the behaviour of many Icelandic people. I don’t know where all this vitriol comes from – some of them (although not all, of course)seem to be delighted by the thought of many 100s of 1000s of honest British, German and Dutch (not to mention those from other Nordic countries) savers losing their money because of the ineptitude of Iceland’s politicians. Wishing misery on others is just plain unpleasant and these few horrible people really ought to be ashamed of themselves. And they wonder why no-one really seems to want to help them out in their time of crisis…
@Kam is that why your all picking on Icelanders because you think there young and small…Shame on you!
@Skari, Whatever. If you want to behave like an 8 year old…I can’t even be bothered to reply to any more of your comments. Looking at your other comments on this and other threads its pretty clear your just some childish troll.
@Knowless, Actually i’m barely effected by this.
“but thanks anyway for your attentive concern”
I’m not concerned. Iceland can sink for all i care.
It’s very intresting though how the Icelanders on this forum have for the most part behaved like spoiled teenage brats with a sense of entitlement.
It´s a shame all you brits don´t go back to the starting blocks of the crisis eg.LEHMAN BROS USA…Oops ! did i mention USA sorry i forgot we are just blaming the minority..
Why should you hold your breath about the future for Iceland? but thanks anyway for your attentive concern even though you must also have pressing concerns.
yes kam we get your point you want us to suffer. you brits have always been small people taking joy in other peoples misfortune.
@fish,
Uh yes, you might be right and the long term projection for oil prices is also very high. But you might also have noticed that we’re currrently moving away from fossil fuels towards nuclear and renewables. Of course we’ll be reliant on fossil fuels for a long while yet.
You have to wonder though what is the lead time for any of this to actually go into production. You first need to have legal agreements, environment surveys and infrastructure built. By the time that is all squared away i have no doubt we’ll be well out of the other side of the recession and into the middle of the next decade.
As far as i’m aware bidding for those contracts are only just beginning and it looks like it would be a while before Iceland gets any revenue from those fields at all.
When Iceland does manage it, it’s first going to have to service it’s debts.
Iceland i’m sure will recover eventually, but i ain’t holding my breath. Meanwhile some of the older folks who had money locked up in those Icelandic lead balloon banks have far more pressing concerns.
count the fish in your hand fishy. no oil has been drilled yet.
Kam…
Recently we have found what seems to be huge oil
and gas deposits in icelandic water maybe that will keep us going just fine. Plenty to export, I mean how much do 300,000 people need.Even to fuel our 1,000,000 SUVs you all think we own.
Probably the Brits and Yanks will be queuing up to finance us if they can get their hands on Black Gold
@bc123a
seriously doubt thats the reason. crybaby’s dont dictate the policies of state. or maybe they do and this is one of those culture gaps.
aww peter, dont be sad. you can be stupid and still lead a productive live.
Skari:
You said it; only an idiot would deal with Iceland.
Koben said:
Bear in mind that Almost no where in France (for example) you read about the Icesave issue
Maybe the general population will, but the business and banking industry will be acutely aware of the risks.
@Virgile
I think once the problem cleared.. that gonna be so much fun to be in Europe…according to IMF..Iceland will be back on feet in about..2 yr..
That is exactly why iceland did not get IMF loan. Foreign governments want to make sure that the iceland pays its debt or at least make solid promises to pay. If iceland would be back on feet in 2 yrs after only a mild recession, depositors would go berserk, many of them lost their life savings, and the money went to iceland to fund the good life there…
kam, no one cares if you dont trust iceland. people dont know who they are doing business with most of the time.
capitalism is based on that your an idiot and the british have proved to be stupider than most.
hahahahaha you hate us and i love it.
http://savingiceland.puscii.nl/?p=3477&language=en#more-3477
An interesting article from an Icelander with slightly more coherent and sober views… Hopefully IceNews won’t block it. Fingers crossed
@Koben,
You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.
France’s banking system is far more protective and sensible than the ones adopted by some of the other european countries. I’m don’t think Icesave was even in France. So why would they report it extensively?
The sad thing about your comment is that the fact that Iceland’s reputation *might* be intact there is not due to choice but do to ignorance of the issue.
Pretty much like you would treat say a rapist on equal terms whilst you are not aware of their crimes. But once/if you get wind of it, your attitude would dramatically change.
Bear in mind that Almost no where in France (for example) you read about the Icesave issue. I’m reading French newspaper daily and not once I’ve tumbled on a coverage of the UK/dutch difficulties with Iceland (I’m not talking about a financial point of view but a political). The only report we had was the failing bank and the possible country bankruptcy.
I believe Iceland’s reputation is intact in there.
@Virgile
You’re in fantasy land if you think anybody is going to trust Iceland enough to trade with them in two years, let alone 5 years to a decade. When the Japanese financial system collapsed it took them ages to recover. What makes you think Iceland will do any better? Looking at the size of the economy and the size of the population and the fact that Iceland won’t be going big in the financial sector anymore (who the hell would trust them anymore?) what can Iceland *produce* to boost its financial situation? Answer, not a hell of a lot apart from fish and Geothermal. Geothermal they can’t trade as yet (to do so would require massive infrastructure investment for the electricity generated), fish they can but is naturally limited in supply. So go figure. As for blaming the British for the problems, its just frankly lame. Not only is the UK not alone in seizing assets it has been viewed by other countries impacted by the same Icelandic scandal as leading the way. Just look at what some of the Dutch ministers and public have said. If you somehow think the large majority of the public outside of Iceland are on your side you are *dead* wrong. Several hundred thousand people directly effected means several times that number of people indirectly effected, in some cases just as badly as those in the direct line of fire of Haarde’s idiocy. Add on top of that you have all the institutions that have lost millions, universities, councils, charities and you have a lot of ill will towards Iceland. If i was an Iceland supporter i wouldn’t be trumpeting it too loudly when in the rest of Europe.
Just a small information about.. how banks in Europe have invested / per GBP…
This is in french.. i am osrry… but just look at the graph….
http://contreinfo.info/article.php3?id_article=2341
That will give you a good Idea
I think once the problem cleared.. that gonna be so much fun to be in Europe…according to IMF..Iceland will be back on feet in about..2 yr..(how long will it take to Britain to be back on feet?
How fun is it going to be in Europe and to deal with countries like Britain…
“The foreign daughter banks such as Landsbanki Luxembourg SA which was touting the flawed Equity Fund Release scheme is leaving thousands of elderly , retired people above all in France and Spain bankrupt and homeless.
These victims are paying for the debts of Iceland.”
As a french person…just want to say that this is lies…The pension system is France is not a one by capitalization…The State take care of it..Same for Spain. No one is homeless in France because Iceland..neither in Spain..
i guess…. this is just another way for British people to take advantage of the situation ?
what about the use of terrorist laws that made about…1000 people here lose their jobs?…?
@bromley86
and, the fact that icelandic government themselves put into the situation where all civilized solution to the banks’ insolvency were painful is no excuse for taking the uncivilized route.
They should take the pain. That’s why now iceland has zero trust abroad and the consequences of this will stretch beyond just delaying IMF loan. While rest of the world will continue to trade normally, iceland companies will be seen with distrust and would have to pay higher insurance fees, prepay their goods, and so on. This will have bad effect for the economy for years to come.
@Bromley86,
I don’t buy that argument.
what about selling the banks to a strong bank (for 1 EUR, with understanding that the responsibility for deposits is transferred), as it is usually done when bank goes bankrupt? The only problem is that there were no more strong domestic banks, and the buyer would have to come from abroad. The banks would continue to operate, and everybody’s deposits would be safe.
To me it still looks like the main motivation behind actions of the government was to ensure that icelanders get preferrential treatment, and the punishment iceland is getting for this stupid decision is severe.
It is also strange how people are talking about crisis in iceland, which didn’t even start (and that may also enrage foreign governments). As far as I know, only people who lost jobs so far are bankers and other professions which are directly related to end of the “easy money” era. (architects, builders, etc…).
Crisis did not even start for icelanders.
To Icelander and Mike, both are right. I hope that the inmigrantes if we have to pay that money I will have tax free ;). And the iceland is the terrorists economy for spain as well.I say terrorists economy, don´t take it for the usual way. Thanks
You should think of Monopoly game solution. Simply if you cannot pay the hotel fee and passing the new start money is far away you will have to sacrifice what you have in your portfolio: banks, businesses, land, fishing territory etc.
On Nov 13, 2008, Mike said:
“So what did happen to the money.”
Should there not be an independant international team of forensic accountants carrying out an inquiry as to where the money has gone?”
You’d hope so, with a fine comb.
landsbanki financial statements are on their website.
http://www.landsbanki.is/index.aspx?GroupId=1220
If you click on June 2008, you’ll also get figures for previous years.
They break down their assets (loans) geographically,
approx 50% to Iceland, 20% UK/Ireland 16% rest of Europe 11% USA and Rest of World.
In the UK. Landsbanki loaned/ invested to businesses.
There is a list of subsidies
For example
They bought Merrion Investment in Ireland for €90m
Before Oct 08 they had a deal in the pipeline to sell it and a few other things together for €380m
This fell through when they were taken over and it was sold in mid october – a management buyout- for €30m.
I’ve just thought that the Icelandic depositors could do a run the Newbankis and strip the assets out of them, leaving them insolvent. Of course, if that did happen, the government would have to agree to fund the net liability to the Oldbankis.
But there’s nowhere else for the people to put the money (they can’t even get it out of the country), so they’ll likely not do a run on the banks.
bc123a. Can’t be done. If the Icelandic economy collapses because there are no banks for them to use for everyday transactions, then no one gets their money back.
There’s no problem with the Icelandic 100% guarantee as long as it is government funded and not funded in any way from the banks’ assets (other than the first 20k euros, which would be repaid to the government for honouring the EEA guarantee).
Of course, that depends on the assets that were transferred to Newbankis not being undervalued. That’s easy to monitor though. BTW, I have thought this through but as I’m not an expert I may have missed an angle where they can try to misappropriate bank funds into the Newbankis.
Some might disagree as depositors would be being treated differently, but I suspect it would be easy to side step any critism as the extra guarantee would be coming directly from the government (rather than from the (now) government supported EEA fund).
Not sure what you mean YES. That article predated(or pretimed) the articles on the status of the guarantee and doesn’ actually say anything about compensation.
Also, Karlheinz is unlikely to get the full amount back whatever happens.
1. EEA Guarantee: 20k euros
2. German top-up: ??k euros
3. Extra from dissolution of Kaupthing if greater than (2): ??euros
@mike,
as repeated on numerous occasions, nobody declared bankruptcy.
Neither icelandic state, nor icelandic banks. Had they cleanly declared bankruptcy, of course there would not been such a mess.
Iceland government prevented banks to file for bankruptcy protection, and instead reorganized them unilaterally in a way that prioritized domestic savers on the expense of foreign savers. All that without even nationalizing them, so they can wash their hands and claim that the bank debts are not iceland state’s problem.
Until they either reverse that, or guarantee the foreign savers minimum guarantee, they will not be let off the hook by foreign governments.
I even think that the western governments are too lenient. They should demand that iceland declares banks bankrupt, cancels the reorganization, and sells the bank assets in orderly liquidation. And, of course, take the responsibility for the damage done in the period between the reorganization and the actual start of the bankruptcy proceedings.
So what did happen to the money.
Should there not be an independant international team of forensic accountants carrying out an inquiry as to where the money has gone? Surely somebody somewhere must have a very great deal stashed away if there are so many people like the poor german mentionmed above, as well as the poor ordinary icelanders who have seen their deposits devalued and maybe frozen.
I have asked the questioned before but never seen an analysis with figures that a team of invesigative accounts could surely provide.
(I just make up that term but it should have the rigour of an air traffic accident investigation where very bit of evidence is fitted together to give an exact history of a catastrophe)
Icelandic did not nor ever had the money to pay their debts and they never will. They never have the money all this time. They all pretend to be rich by borrowing and using somebody else’s money.
Do you wish to know what is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion—when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing—when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors…
Living beyond ones means will never make anybody happy. Because booms depend on the indebtedness of many, a debt based system can only be ruled by deceptions. It is not foolish to assume that 90% of everything we think we know is false. Nobody likes to be taken for a ride but our world debt orgy came with a very nasty string attached and called: ‘Inflation Holocaust’.
And you still have some difficulties to adjust your thought, just know that it is all deja-vu again: 650 Years Ago, Venice rigged the first, and worst, global financial collapse… causing widespread plague epidemics and the 100-year war between France and Great Britain.
The time of a real Intellectual Revolution is long overdue.
“Quote for the wise”
To preserve the people’s independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our selection between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude – Thomas Jefferson
Look at this, what a shame
http://icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=16567&ew_0_a_id=315327
This seems to be another bluff played by Iceland…
They have no intention whatsoever to pay, no way
Oh, can the Icelanders also drop this ridiculous claim that the British think they are terrorists. They do not think you are terrorists. The law that stopped Icelandic banks from removing their assets from the UK before paying liabilities covers a range of circumstances that also happens to include terrorism.
What a mess. Some agreement will have to be reached. After all, bankrupts don’t have to pay everything back and so I guess bankrupt countries shouldn’t have to either.That said, in the hardship stakes I’m afraid the Icelanders will have to bear the geatest share.
I won’t believe this until i see it. The Icelandic government have said so many contradictory things in the past weeks its impossible to trust any decision that they make. Their statements have often been so contradictory with not just other countries’ views of the situation and their obligations but also earlier statements that they themselves put out.
Add on top of this their increasingly erratic behaviour e.g. offering an airbase to the russians who have no need of one and the insults slung around at the Danish hosts and attending guests and basically you have a government that is desperate fighting but entirely headless. It’s almost like watching the final thrashing of limbs of a slaughtered animal.
Maybe Icelanders have finally swollowed a dose of humility and reality. And taken some time out from dressing up as terrorists on the pointless website trying to lay the blame of their own mess on the UK and everyone else they owe money to.
But i doubt it. There is too much stubborness in the way here. I’m pretty sure Haarde and the Icelandic population will draw this out for as long as possible, extending the pain on not just themselves but also to those they owe money.
Just look at the way they keep blaming the British and Dutch governments. Its pathetic. And now that they find out that there is a unanimous decision to withhold IMF funds, they’ll have a brief sulk and probably lash out a few more times before finally bowing their heads in defeat.
I really hope the Icelanders have the intelligence to draw a line under all this by doing whats right i.e. kicking out those idiots in government and paying the debts and abidding international law like other civilised countries. Its going to be a long time before they are well regarded again. This time around they’ll just have to do some real work to gain trust and status.
@novparl
“How are you people going to find the money?”
BORROW… we never had money… in recent years got used to a lifestyle of endless consumption, buying things we cannot afford with the money we don’t have… most of people are in debts (study loans, car loans, housing loans, severe credit card overdrafts… you name it). What Icelanders need in my opinion is to face the reality and sensible economic behaviour at both, the government and personal levels. Hope this crisis will teach a lesson and hard things will make us better…
>How are you people going to find the money?
The British, Dutch and Germans governments will lend it to them.
Well, most won’t get fishy’s discount for cash as it’ll be borrowed. Both the Netherlands and the UK have, at some time, offered to loan the amount to cover the 20k euro guarantee.
It’s difficult to keep up though as Dutch news is reporting that the Icelander’s don’t want the loan now. I suspect that that’s old news from before the recent descision to negotiate that’s just filtered through to the papers.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/11/iceland_may_refuse_1bn_dutch_l.php
Good to see that Morgunbladid is still throwing around numbers to frighten the public though. If they didn’t also mentioned that the assets will likely cover all of that amount, then that’s pretty irresponsible.
How are you people going to find the money?
No Oddsson banknotes, pls!
:D
Icelandic Banks cannot behave like Bandits and then expect the world to jump to their rescue.
Landsbanki, Kaupthing and Glitnir outside Iceland were told to let their clints sink and drown without lifejackets whilst Iceland looked after keeping everything for Iceland even though they were in serious debt.
The foreign daughter banks such as Landsbanki Luxembourg SA which was touting the flawed Equity Fund Release scheme is leaving thousands of elderly , retired people above all in France and Spain bankrupt and homeless.
These victims are paying for the debts of Iceland.
Who is going to come to the help of these people who were deceived, lied to and plundered?
Certainly not Iceland or Luxembourg, who will just look the other way.
I hope the solution’ll be found and soon. This whole thing has to be over and done with as soon as possible. It has to be forgotten even soon and already next year Iceland will be credible as much as before. Hope is the word now.
Fishy – this question you should ask your government.
Do i get a discount if i pay my 2 million in cash?