PRESS RELEASE FROM THE ICELANDIC PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE:
The Executive Board of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has approved Iceland’s request for a two year stand-by arrangement. Iceland will receive USD 2.1 bn. from the IMF.
Additional loans of up to USD 3 bn. have been secured from Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Russia and Poland. The Faroe Islands have announced that they would lend Iceland USD 50 million.
Of the IMF loan, USD 827 million will be immediately available with the remaining sum made over in eight equal installments of about USD 155 million each, subject to quarterly reviews. The IMF program will last two years and Iceland will repay the loan over the years 2012-2015.
The funds made available through the IMF will be used to support the currency, the Icelandic krona, which will be floated as soon as possible. It is to be expected that the currency market will stabilize soon and that international money transfers will subsequently return to normal.
The Government of Iceland welcomes the action taken by the IMF, its Nordic neighbours, Russia, Poland and the Faroe Islands which it sees as a very positive step towards bringing financial stability after a period of uncertainty.
Prime Minister, Geir H. Haarde said:
“We welcome the announcement made by the IMF today which I believe is an important step forward towards the rebuilding of our economy. With the IMF agreement in place, we can commence our recovery program with full force and bring our economy back on track. I thank those countries who also contributed to the loan package. Our task now is to overcome the difficulties we face and to regain the trust and the standing among other nations which we enjoyed before the impact of the global financial crisis struck Iceland“.
Minister for Foreign Affairs, Ingibjörg Sólrún Gísladóttir said:
“We appreciate the approval from the IMF and the trust in Iceland which it represents. The participation of the IMF in rebuilding the Icelandic economy is very important. It gives us a solid platform for re-establishing the credibility which will be necessary in restructuring a viable Icelandic economy.”
Additional press and media service:
To ensure transparency and satisfactory media service, a press office function has been established as part of the effort outlined above. The aim will be to ensure continued service to the domestic and international press. The mail address to the projects going forward will be: press@pmo.is for press photos: photos@pmo.is. For more facts and information from the Government, please visit www.government.is
Background on Prime Minister Geir H. Haarde
Background about Iceland
For more background and facts about Iceland – please visit www.government.is and www.icetourist.is/displayer.asp?cat_id=269.
For general information about Iceland, please contact the Iceland Chamber of Commerce, www.vi.is. The contact person is Finnur Oddson, Managing Director, e-mail: finnur@vi.is.
Iceland in short:
Iceland is an island of 103.000 km2 (39,756 sq.miles), with only 313.000 inhabitants, is about one-third larger than Scotland or Ireland. Its highest peak, Hvannadalshnjúkur, rises to 2.119 m and over 11 per cent of the country is covered by glaciers, including Vatnajökull, the largest in Europe. Energy: Situated on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, Iceland is a hot spot of volcanic and geothermal activity: 30 post-glacial volcanoes have erupted in the past two centuries, and natural hot water supplies much of the population with cheap, pollution-free heating. Rivers, too, are harnessed to provide inexpensive hydroelectric power. People: Of the 313.000 citizen, more than half live in the capital Reykjavík and its neighbouring towns in the southwest. Keflavík International Airport is located about 50 km from the capital. Language: Iceland was settled by Nordic people in the 9th century – tradition says that the first permanent settler was Ingólfur Arnarson, a Norwegian Viking who made his home where Reykjavík now stands. The Icelanders still speak the language of the Vikings, although modern Icelandic has undergone changes of pronunciation and, of course, of vocabulary! Iceland is alone in upholding another Norse tradition, i.e. the custom of using patronymics rather than surnames; and Icelander’s Christian name is followed by his or her father’s name and the suffix -son or -dóttir, e.g. Guðrún Pétursdóttir (Guðrún, daughter of Pétur). Members of a family can therefore have many different “surnames”, which sometimes causes confusion to foreigners! History: In 930, the Icelandic settlers founded one of the world’s first republican governments; the Old Commonwealth Age, described in the classic Icelandic Sagas, lasted until 1262, when Iceland lost its independence, and in 1944 the present republic was founded. The country is governed by the Althing (parliament), whose 63 members are elected every four years. Four-yearly elections are also held for the presidency; President Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson was elected in June 1996 to succeed Vigdís Finnbogadóttir, and was re-elected in June 2000. The head of state plays no part in day-to-day politics. Economy: Iceland has all the characteristics of a modern welfare state. National income per capita was somewhat above the EU average in 2007. Iceland has largely built on its comparative advantages in abundant marine and energy resources although the main driver of economic growth recently has been services with two-thirds of the working population employed in the service sector, both public and private. Fish and other marine products were the mainstay of an export oriented economy until early 2008, when exports of aluminium smelting products emerged as the largest single export product accounting for 40% of total export revenue. Export of services such as tourism have also been growing and account for almost one-fifth of total export revenue. Iceland is a member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) and the European Economic Area (EEC). Health: Life expectancy, at 81.3 years for women and 76.4 for men, is one of the highest in the world, and a comprehensive state health-care system aims to keep it that way.
Reykjavik, 19 November 2008
FISHY, I favour the EURO in currency trading ONLY with the króna because it has a more stable development. Yes, yen and dollar have experimented revaluation BUT, they also have experimented HUGE variations lately. They just don’t offer stability for currency traders. DOLLAR AND YEN ARE VERY VERY RISKY CURRENCIES RIGHT NOW, WHY? Because it is expected that the Bank of Japan will rise interests anytime (no one really knows when and how much). That would mean huge losses from people who had bought Yen, changed into dollars and then back. This is what is going to happen:
-People borrowed YEN AT almos 0% interest.
-They bought euros as ECB offered higher interests.
-The YEN revaluated agains the EURO, so people have almost loose the interests.
-The BOJ will raise their interests, people will loose money as they will need to pay more YENS back and they will be more expensive in EURO terms.
But of course all that above was about international carry trade. The difference between that and what I do ( currency trade). Is that I am always working with a currency as reference for looses or earns ( the isk) and I put bets in how a certain currency is going to revaluate against the króna. This is very eassy as the króna has been falling like a heavy stone.
YOU PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN SOME BASICS:
Currency trade and Carry trade are not the same thing. In currency trade you buy and sell at the same bank. In carry trade you move your moneys from one bank in a country to another bank in another country where you can have higher interests for the money (with the risk of devaluation of that countries currency, which is the case of Iceland). And here we have the main problem of Iceland now. CBI is thinking about raising to a 20% the interest. However, people positioning their money to lenders in icelandic bank have lost 60 % per cent of their money as isk has been devaluating. Icelandic currency has lost all imaginable trust in the carry trade market. Which means that as soon as the isk is put on it a HUGE amount of money will run out of this country to other places. Why? because people are ready FISHY, to loose a lot in carry trade, but they will want to GET OUT as soon as possible so they can make profit in the future with what they have left.
The falling króna is something unstoppable. Rising interests, not even to a 100% will be enough, as traders don’t have any trust in the ICB to be able to pay back. The most of international loans will go to TRY to keep the króna from further weakening. But the outflow cash is going to be so HUGE, that the loans will burn up pretty rappidly. The other option is to let the króna crash and use the loasn to reconstruct the economy and fill the banks with cash so the country can keep working (buying and selling goods and services). Both approaches are equally devastating for the icelandic economy ( society). Who is the goverment going to let suffer? the bank MAFIA or the population? The population of course. Bank mafia are too powerful for seeing all that money go away to help icelanders eat and have a roof on their heads.
You are mixing things up.
You can actually mover your money between icelandic bank accounts without limitations.
You can take cash for 500.000 isk out of your bank in paper money. I took 500.000 all at once at GLITNIR. You can move any quantity of money you want between icelandic bank accounts. As the money is still in the bank system this does not present a danger for them. But, if people take all the moneys out of the bank and put it at home, then it is a difficult situation.
You can use your credit cards and debit cards abroad, with the only limitation normally imposed for taking moneys out of bank automatic machines. That is made for your own security as your card can be stolen. For example, in some banks in europe I have always been able to take around 200 euros with my debt card, even one or two years ago. BUT, with a credit card where you have money you can take as much as you want, or have with no limitations.
You could go to any country and buy, for example, a car for 1.000.000 and pay it with your debit or credit (if it is not borrowing money from it, such quantity has been reduced from 350.000 to 250.000 isk)
Please, phone visa or mastercard, visit the web pages and see the rates for euro or dollar in isk krónurs. That is what you pay outside.
WAKE UP HONEY! Many people have send debt and credit cards to people abroad to make payments this way.
If you just read the big letters of the publications of the CBI and you don’t look for alternatives ways. Please, call visa and mastercard and they will tell you how it works to use your cards abroad. Using your cards abroad looks like you are transfering your money, but you are virtually not. What is really happening is that Visa or mastercard (international companies, not banks) lend you money outside and then they take the money from your bank accounts where the cards are issued. They charge a percent for that and that is what they live on. Visa and mastercard are making a lot of money of this situation, why? Because for each euro or dollar someone from abroad spends in Iceland using their cards they only have to pay now 182 isk to icelandic banks. So they are winning the difference between 280 and 182 and this moment. The same diference, well, less than that is what they loose when someone abroad uses a card issued for an icelandic bank account. As they are fixing prices for how much people have to pay for each coin, they never loose and are making money of this. That is why there is no limitation in using your VISA and mastercard debt and credit cards abroad (except for the credit you can take as money in advance, such credit has been reduced to around 300.000).
The problem of many of you is that you wanted to make transactions to bank accounts abroad to make payments. Those payments are controlled by the CBI, as they are direct money from BANK to BANK and is nothing to do with the process of using a deb or credit card. Such process as I said is about using the services of a payment company that is not a bank.
You need to get more knowledge in how things work and where you are.
lets start by answering this:
-What is a bank?
-What is a savings account and how does it work?
-Which products are offered by banks that are not deposits in the bank but inversions you do through banks in other positions?
-How do VISA and MASTERCARD work? and, are they banks?
-How much money goes out of the icelandic bank system when you move money between bank accounts in icelandic banks?
-Why are certain limits set to the use of credit and debet cards when you take cash abroad or when you make payments for services or goods (at the point you purchase them. * internet shopping occurs in virtual “shops” on the net).
Your problem orchafine is that you put all in the same package because you make operations that are linked to your bank. Your bank is simple the place where your money is ( or where it should be, HAHAAH :D, in the case of UK icesavers) Your cards are products from companies the bank sells you. Banks have a gain of it, but they just give those companies your money under a contract you have with them.
Good luck honey…. And if you have someone abroad you really trust, send that person a card so he can make the payments for you.
Gus
Since the Geysergate started (29 Sept.), I have been in close contact with my associates and consultant at the bank. It was more than clear (resulting from the Act. no. 125/2008) that on the 7th October NOBODY could withdraw more than 250.000 ISK in Iceland and 55.000ISK equivalent outside of Iceland. One week after, the 15th, Seðlabanki instate the so-called SWIFT MT103 for transfers abroad.
Last Friday I still couldn’t take more than 55.000ISK.
I guess my bank is cheating on me or you are a nice Charlot…
# Gus
Currency speculation is a very dangerous game….
just ask the many x traders who went from hero to
zero in the last months…and i,m talking big players trading with 10 mill usd+
In a previous post i questioned why you favour the Euro when clearly USD ,Jap yen, and YOUR Swiss Franc have increased far more over the last 12 months?
In the case of Jap yen +146% compared with Euro +92
you mean 550.000 or 55.000? are you talking in euros, dollars or Icelandic krónurs? Limitations have been set to take money out of your credit cards ABROAD and in ICELAND when you are taking money that you don’t have in your account but are just credit. The credit limits have been reduced. When you go and take money out of cash machines at banks you can get us much as you want in the way I explained in my comment. BUT, I hope you have a minimum of IQ to understand that each bank abroad do have certain limits on how much money you can disdraw from their machines each day, even when you have accounts in those banks.
What you could possibly buy in paper money is exactly 55.000 krónurs per person. Please, call VISA or Mastercard offices in Iceland and ask, because they are the ones making all the thing when you take money abroad. If I am not saying the truth then VISA or Matercard aren’t. Because that is what they are telling people. I have been abroad last week, I did not have any problems in taking money out of the machines. I took as much as 3.500 euros at the rate indicated by VISA and MASTERcard and that was the money taken from my icelandic bank accounts after 2-3 days.
Gus >>> It has been set a limit in how much money you can take out of your credit card, BUT, if you have a GOLD or PLATINUM credit card that you can use only if you put money on it before.
Not true for me… I could only take 55.0000 each time.
http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/index.en.html
COMMENTS? ;)
Do you know what? I can also predict the biggest earthquake of Icelandic history, it has already started. You cannot feel it yet. Only precise instruments can allow you to notice it is coming. If you know how to follow with foreign currency trade and if you do that everyday and you check it like 50 times a day, or if you just know the peak hours and how traders behave. Then you could possible had noticed that shaking that is going on with the icelandic króna with changes per minute from 181.85 isk euro to 180.20 and back to 181.88 in just two minutes. Do you really know how much money those numbers represent?. It seems that is nothing for one or two days, but it is a lot for just ONE MINUTE. When the króna is put on the marked the shaking will be something (as an example) like this just in hours you could see this : ( isk=eur) 185, 230, 190, 270, … all these numbers maybe in just two or three hours. You wont appreciate those movements at the web sites of the banks at real time. It is very risky to buy or sell currency while that is happening if you don’t have the right instruments to follow the trade correctly. So using the daily rates published at the ICB or any other bank would not be enough.
Buying and selling currency means that you now what is going on on real time, and, if it is possible, much before ( like 10 minutes) what is going to happen next. That gives you enough time to make a phone call to move your currency. And you better have charged the battery or your mobile phone because I know someone who did not and he lost a lot.
If any of you is interested you can start up with, lets say, 10.000 kronurs. If you play it well you can learn a lot and make it be 20.000 just in days. You start with 10.000, you make lets say 15.000, you put 5.000 apart ( thats the money to back any future loss), you design your strategy, you learn about the instruments to follow the currency trade. You learn how to get right information about the market. You make your bets. LETS GO!. You did work on it very safe, you made it from 10.000 to 20.000. You take again 5.000 to the back. (You have 10.000 back 15.000 front) 15.000 front and bigger backs give you more confidence to risk more. Risking more means loosing more or winning more money. You design, you put your limits of what is loosing and earning. You keep calm cold blood, you move quick, and then, and then and then…. You could change 10.000 isk into millions in just few years. But always the back-front strategy. In the worst of the scenarios you would always have a back saved amount that it is always considerably bigger than the money you put at the beginning.
There appearing new strategies in currency trade, less long term approach and more action. Interest rates of national banks are a relative element of reference as currencies are suffering considerable changes in its values. Lets say that all currencies are dancing around, you are dancing with a currency (like when you dance with a girl) as soon as you see another that you like more you dump the other girl and go dancing with the new one, and so on.
The only LONG-TERM what is left in our economies are the rescue plans of the governs.
The limits set for buying foreign currency were set on 300 euros per person travelling abroad (paper money you could buy at the bank) and transactions from icelandic bank accounts to bank accounts outside Iceland. BUT, you could still take money out of bank machines abroad using your credit or debit card (visa, mastercard) at the rates offered by those companies (those rates has been slightly above the ICB rates). It has been set a limit in how much money you can take out of your credit card, BUT, if you have a GOLD or PLATINUM credit card that you can use only if you put money on it before (there is not real credit if you contracted the product that way) you can take as much money as you want from your icelandic accounts when you are abroad. You will just pay 2 to 3 isk more for each euro or dollar. But it is possible to take all your money out of ICELAND this way. And many foreigners that have abandoned the country don’t even know this.
Do you know what Bjarni and the others? If you have been hanging around banks for a very long time, as I have. You can learn many ways of doing things, discover new passages, invent new solutions, and move your money to where you want. People just have heard about the limitations but only a minority of people know “the secrets” of the bank system. But for doing it you have to be really smart. And know, I am not going to tell all I know. If you want I can give you a course on how to manage your money if you live in Iceland and you are a foreigner.
People, please get well informed.
People, WAKE UP! It has been possible, and still is, to transfer your money to the so called “accounts in foreign currency”. Evrareikningur, dolareikningur, og fl. The only bank which stopped making movements between accounts named in foreign currency and isk was GLITNIR, last week.
NOTICE that when you are making such transactions you are not BUYING foreign currency in paper, you are just naming your money into another currency. What is not possible is that you buy PAPER MONEY and you take it out of your bank. There have no been set limits to the quantity of krónas you cant put in your bank named on foreign currency.
If you have any doubt of this call to landsbankin ( 00354 410 4000) and ask them if you can open a dollar or euros account and put money on them from your savings accounts named in isk.
Then also phone GLITNIR and ask them when did they stop letting customers do those transactions.
And, what is most important, YOU CAN ALWAYS MAKE TRANSACTIONS FROM YOUR ACCOUNTS NAMED IN FOREIGN CURRENCY AT THE SAME BANK. The trick is that if you want to move money to another bank you have to convert it in isk, then move it from there to your account in isk at the other bank where is possible to open an account in dollars or euros.
WHAT YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY DO SINCE THE FIRST RESTRICTIONS IS TO BUY PAPER MONEY OR TO SEND YOUR MONEY OUT OF ICELAND TO MAKE PAYMENTS OR TRANSACTIONS TO BANK ACCOUNTS ABROAD. but anything between accounts in the icelandic bank system has not been limited, with the exception of GLITNIR (as I named here above), and accounts that are in products different than current and saving bank accounts. ( Sjóðir, og fl.)
So Bjarni, get informed, and read the small letter of the rules.
Bjarni >>> I still doubt any bank would have sold 77000 Euros to Gus, at any price on the 13th.
I confirm to you that. The week before, I try to buy more dollars with Spron and it was already denied. All accounts in foreign currency where frozen from that week on. It could only be used locally and of course in ISK. Just 2 weeks after I could request a swift to the central bank.
To Mike:
You are right, Glitnir’s published rate for 13th October was indeed 121.
I still doubt any bank would have sold 77000 Euros to Gus, at any price on the 13th, as at the time there were strict restrictions on how much foreign currencies anyone could buy (limited to basic imported goods, oil, travel expences, etc.).
http://www.sedlabanki.is/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=6493
It is so incredible that people in Iceland don’t have any information at all about what is really going on. It has been published a program for the nest months explaining the CBI and govern intentions. But, people don’t really understand the real causes behind all this and why are they getting into this situation.
Lets pray because we are in the hands of a club of idiots…
Bjarni,
121 on 13-10?
Go to http://www.glitnir.is
Click the three red letters EUR in the table on the right of the screen. You’ll see the horrible gyrations that took place.
When will you people realise that most of the “official” data pumped at you over the last three years has been false? The Central Bank market for ISK isn’t working because it isn’t a market!
Bjarni
I checked with my book-keeper and you are right about the tax but it only applies to Iceland residents.
Waw guys, thank you for your attention. It is possible to buy and sell currency in the way that you transfer from isk saving accounts to accounts in the same banck called “accounts in foreign currency”. It has been possible to buy and sell in all the banks until glitnir closed this possibility last week.
orchafine, no tax for this. I think you are mixing the concept “persónuafsláttur”, which is around 300.000 isk and means the money the state discount you of what you have to pay. If you have incomes (changing currency can generate more kronurs but is not considered an income as when you change the krónurs and you pay taxes the króna might be at a different price, and you can suddenly change your money into euros etc…, so you pay only taxes only for the interest you earn. Look, the bank earns something when you buy and sell. One pays taxes of the interests earned. That is what only counts for taxes. When exchanging your money into other currency you are just converting your money into its value in the money of another country. If it turns to be more or less krónurs after you make certain movements that is only something circumstancial. Why? because currency changes the whole time. You could not ask the tax office to pay you money back if the króna got suddenly strong and you, having isk, would loose in terms of euros.
And for all of you who have not realized it yet: different rates isk/euro are in the different banks, sometimes considerably lower or higher than those posted at the sedlabanki website. Please check the different websites of icelandic banks, you will see that all prices are different. sometimes even 3-5 isk of difference between one bank and another. This virtually means that also banks are playing with offering the best rates isk/euro as people have been moving their moneys from one bank to another.
AND YES, I AM VERY QUICK, I follow different instruments of observation of currency development. (rates each 5 seconds) You can see each day if certain currency is going to go “down” or “up”. You cannot wait to read the morgunbladið the day after. That could be too late for buying or selling, specially when a currency moves like the króna lately. Remember the 15% rate exchange difference just in 24 hours in october? WAKE UP.
Difference strategies, different instruments, etc… Trading currency is not an easy thing. But it turns really easy when you see a currency (in this case the Icelandic Króna) fall like a plain that was at 10.000 feet and have suddenly lost both wings, all this happening while we can watch it direct on the telly. Then the goverment stops the transmission. Now, when the króna is put out to float on the market it will be still a plain without wings. How many feet are left before it finally crashes? So, the period between 170isk/1euro and what is coming next has been too long in the currency market. I think the plane is close to crush, and will crush during the next week. I think we will see the Icelandic króna crushing at 350 isk/1 euro or more. Believe me, currency market is very very mean… No one wants to buy a currency that is falling like this, no matter how much they will try to save it. THIS IS THE END OF THE ICELANDIC KRÓNA, but not the end of Iceland.
It is sad to say but yes, this is the end of the icelandic króna and trying to keep it will only make things more difficult. This country will have to keep it for a while. Lets say, a minimum of 6 months. There will be some inevitable IMF loan burning for not letting the króna get worse than 350isk/1euro. But it wont get closer to 150isk/1euro, not even in the central bank director’s best dreams. IT is really fair to say 350isk, could be much much worse. Some people are predicting 500 isk/1euro at peaks.
By the summer of 2009 Iceland will had managed to do the best in this situation. We will see a swift to another currency. Don’t be surprised if Iceland takes the weakening USA dollar temporary ( sounds crazy but I will explain later why), but the most probable thing is that Norway makes a real sacrifice for this country as they see in Iceland a perfect partner in many economic and political matters concerning oil resources in north atlantic. Iceland will not fully get into the EU soon. By the end of 2009 Iceland will have either the norwegian króna or will peg the icelandic króna to the norwegian. Norway will not admit, as has been said by many politians at the norse parliament, the icelandic population starve while they will live in relative wealth in Oslo. That would be the biggest betrayal of scandinavian history. The ruin of Iceland is simply something that scandinavian nations cannot let happen, and will not let happen.
Therefore, in this new scene all scandinavian countries will elaborate new economic politics, new treats, etc… Iceland will significantly obtain support but also will have to follow certain rules imposed by Norway essentially. That would be much better than joining the EU. Lets say that, even if it does not look like that right now, joining EU is and will always be the worst choice for this country.
To orchafine:
>>>>In the case of Gus, we never talked about taxes.
Doesn’t he have to declare this revenue next Mars? I think it’s like that for extra incomes up to 300.000ISK. Then, he should pay back to government next august some thing like 5M ISK, if is numbers are right of course…
You might be right.
In Iceland the capital gains tax is 10%, but I am not so sure it applies to currency speculations by individuals. If it does not, then the standard income tax rate of about 35% should apply. It would of course only apply to his profits, not the whole amount.
In the case of Gus, we never talked about taxes.
Doesn’t he have to declare this revenue next Mars? I think it’s like that for extra incomes up to 300.000ISK. Then, he should pay back to government next august some thing like 5M ISK, if is numbers are right of course…
To Mike:
Who was selling Euros at 121 ISK on 13th of October?
Whoever it was, could have easily walked into any bank in Iceland that same day and gotten official rate 150 ISK for it. There have not been restrictions on selling foreign currencies in Iceland, just buying it.
Bjarni
Bjarni,
Gus could have done the trades he claims but he would have had to be quick.
The open market rate for the EUR/ISK on 7 October peaked at 172. With a couple of big bounces it bottomed at 121 on 13 October.
Gus might be a bit assertive but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t of pulled off these trades. In fact, if I had done so I would be pretty full of myself!
To Gus:
>>>>1. Buy EUROS when they were 90 isk= 1 Euro
2. Sell EUROS when they got 170 isk.
3. Buy EUROS again when they were 122isk.
4. Waiting now for selling them at 250 isk, probably much more.
>>>>Lets look what happened in the different steps:
1. 5000000 isk % 90 = 55.555. 55 Euros
2. 55.555 euros x 170 = 9.444.444 isk.
3. 9.444.444 isk % 122= 77.413 Euros
The information you are giving just doesn’t fly if you compare it against the actual published exchange rates during October 2008:
http://www.sedlabanki.is/?PageID=7
1. At the end of 2007 the ISK/EUR rate was at 91, which had until then been quite steady
2. During March 2008 (the hedge fund attack), the exchange rate rose to 120.
3. During September 2008 the rate rose from 120 to 145
4. During first week of October, when the crisis started the rate kept rising steadily up to 155 ISK.
5. On October 6th, the rate was still at 155
6. On October 7th, Icelandic central bank tried to
fix the exhange rate to 131, with the official rate published as 136
7. On October 8th, the banks started running out of foreign currency. The central bank gave up on the fixed rate and the rate rose again up to 172
8. On October 9th, it fell again down to 144
9. On October 10th, the central bank officially introduced restrictions on foreign currency flows
and fixed the rate to 150
10. During the rest of October, the rate was slowly increased to 153
11. During November 2008, rate has been steadily increased to 180
The only way, you could have come anywhere close to the scenario you described, would have been to purhcase the Euros last year at 90, sell it on October 8th at 170, and then buy it again on October 9th at 144. The exchange rate never went down again below that and certainly not anywhere close to 122!
You still have not described how you were even able to buy Euros during the month of October again (at any rate), as at that time the Icelandic banks had more or less run out of their foreign currencies.
There are stories of people walking between all the banks, trying to exchange even low amounts for travel abroad and not succeeding. You on the other hand, state that you were somehow able at the same time to buy 77000 Euros at 122.
#Gus
Hi Gus its your old friend FISHY…
I have to ADMIT after a hard days work i am starting to look forward to reading your latest posts…
In the last 12 months ……
The Euro as risen 92%
The USD as risen 119%
The jap yen as risen 146%
and your precious Swiss franc 104%
SO apart from the GBP that as risen only 62%
Maybe youve been backing the wrong horse?
Or are you just exstorting money from desperate people because the Euro is in high demand with foreigners here paying up to 300 krona black market
because the banks are restricting so much on outgoing currency?
% states for “divided”, it should be 77.413 euros x 250isk= 19.353368 isk. and not “4.77.413 euros……”
And Bjarni, trust me.
My neighbour had 5 millions and bought bank products (unsafe). I don´t know if he has something left. It is too late to give this advice to anyone. but, the right strategy here was what I did:
1. Buy EUROS when they were 90 isk= 1 Euro
2. Sell EUROS when they got 170 isk.
3. Buy EUROS again when they were 122isk.
4. Waiting now for selling them at 250 isk, probably much more.
Lets look what happened in the different steps:
1. 5000000 isk % 90 = 55.555. 55 Euros
2. 55.555 euros x 170 = 9.444.444 isk.
3. 9.444.444 isk % 122= 77.413 Euros
and
4. 77.413 euros x 250 (could be much more)= 19.353.368 isk !!!!
Then the only thing I need is to do is to change to long-term strategy and put my isk on the “vaxtaþrep” at around 17.5 %, I will get 247.000 isk a month. And I will win huge interest as well as I will win while the króna gets progressively stronger. I am not talking that the króna is going to get strong again in one semester. It will take around 2 years minimum for the króna to go back from an aproximante 300 isk=euro to something like 150-170isk euro. When that happen Bjarni, how much isk krónurs do you think I will have, and how much euros? So you see, in something like a year I am making my money from 5 million into almost 20 million. While most of the people are going to 0.
Maybe, the problem is that babe sitters don’t know how to apply therapy to 8 years old children being toddlers to acquire bilateral vocal cord nodules through therapy and reflux meds, children that have gastro-reflux and poor oral muscle tone inhiting proper speech, like in the case of a sever multiple handicaped child. There are lots of children here who need special care. And if all foreign professionals move to other countries it will be a great shortage in hospitals and schools. And even many people would have to move out of the country to just get what their children need to get better.
Gus,
Don’t worry about Iceland. They survived so far and will keep doing it.
About the little children, I am sure with the unemployment raising; it will be no difficulties to find chip babysitters and presidents too ;-)
You should worry about your own future. Europe changed a lot since those last 4 years. I doubt very much you could find a job for the coming year. But, since it seems you want to stay in Iceland, then you are safe. Except for the segregation part…
The only thing it really matters right now; it is to keep the pressure over politicians. Those clowns have to step down and criminal financiers have to pay the price.
Thanks Peter, so it seems that I am going to make lots of money now. But I would really be happy with the euro getting to 250isk, If it gets more expensive, like 350 isk or more, it would really hurt me to see what would happen in this country. I like to earn money, but I also have some human feelings and I don’t wish this country to suffer that much. I just want icelandic society to learn from this, be more human, more respectful and stop playing to be Gods at the top of humanity.
I really don’t wish this country to go deeper into a great recession. I have some icelandic friends and it touches my heart to see how they are loosing everything: their jobs, houses, cars, everything. Many of my friends, icelandic and foreigners are looking now for jobs abroad.
What I am saying is that this society needs to do important changes in lifestyle and values. I am not saying that it has to disappear or be blamed forever. I feel solidarity for this country as it has become my country for the many years I have been living here. And yes, even if I am making a huge profit out of this, my heart is really touched, just seeing how my coworkers are experiencing tragical losses in their life. I don’t hate this country, I love it to the bottom of my heart. But now is time to speak out so the voices of all us are heard so this society can change and be a better one. I want my children, if we keep living in this land, to be considered as people of this country and treated with respect. Because if they are born here then they are icelanders. It just scare me to see how we have been always treated as foreigners, as if we were not part of this society. That is really denigrating. There are thousands of children born in iceland of parents from other countries. We deserve respect and our place in society. And I know that we are going to make it if we do it together. Specially professionals like me, who have an education that is very needed in this country. Apart of being an economist and being actually a teacher and lecturer I also work in speech therapy and special education. At this point at least 20 speech therapists more are needed in the country. Specially to help children and other people to have a better life and be able to communicate and talk. I am working 8 extra hours every week so those children can have a chance. For those children and for other people that need me I am not going to abandon this country, because I see I am very needed here. As I say, I could get 3 or four times a higher salary in other countries where I actually could go and start working the same day I arrive. But apart of money matters, one has some moral responsibility with people. I just cannot go and let those children there, with no one to help them. I just cant. That is why I hate when I have experience rejection from arrogant people with no education at all, because everyday parents and young people thank me for what I am doing here for them, and I am happy they are getting better.
Gus
This is from the FT.
“The central bank estimates that international investors own up to IKr400bn ($2.9bn, €2.4bn, £2bn) of domestic bonds, and has warned that the tiny North Atlantic nation should prepare itself for a “massive currency outflow”.”
You may want to readjust just how low the Krona will go. Its trading at 250 with a closed market. There is zero credibility in any aspect of Iceland’s management, from anyone. I wouldn’t be surprised if it hits 1000/euro or more.
And yes, QUIERO SER PRESIDENTE, yes I would like to be the president of this country. Who would say that a man of color could be the president of USA? Who would say that an icelander of foreign origin, son of in-migrants would be some day the prime minister or president of this country? wait and you will see…
Yes 10 millions. isk. When you buy and sell currency correctly you all always winning in go-return movements from lets say isk to euro and then back.
The good thing is that in situations like this one, where the isk has presented significant losses (devaluation) and experienced short time revaluations, is possible to make huge amounts of money. One needs to carefully design an strategy. I have chosen these main components:
1. If you are lucky to make a good profit from an initial capital you can use the benefit to make further inversions. This mean that you will assure you will never loose, at least, the initial capital.
2. If you are intelligent enough you can double the benefits derived from the first movements. You have now triplicated your money and you are far from looses. Many people just let their moneys there without doing anything and they just have seen how is becoming nothing as the króna losses value and goods and services are increasing its prices.
3. You might have the temporary impression of being loosing or earning money this way. All depends of your objectives and your strategy. What you want to get, and when. I have my tops and bottom lines of what does loosing or earning mean. That means that I know when to go out or in a certain currency.
4. It is always possible to SELL your foreign currency in Iceland. What is difficult is to buy paper money. But what is completely possible is to buy and sell currency if you keep it in your bank accounts ( foreign currency accounts). As I know you can do it in many banks (Glitnir closed this possibility last week).
5. My next move, will be buy króna when it gets at it cheapest. It is expected that it will loose at least 40% of its current value (177isk=Euro) so it means that it will get around 250isk=Euro. Is it at problem? not at all.
6. After buying selling euros and dollars so expensive you will get lots more of krónurs than the initially inverted. Of course you have the same amount traduced to euros. BUT, then in you strategy you could have thought about moving your moneys for example to the high interests accounts that pay you around 17% in a monthly basis. As you bought isk when it was at its bottom, the only thing that can occur is that it will get stronger. As the króna gets stronger ( long term speaking) and you get montly interest, you are gaining more euros as time passes.
I have tried to described in an intelligible language. This has been my strategy. I have been making money since this crisis started ( buying dollars when they were 54 isk., selling for 127, buying again for 95isk, and so on… As we get out of this crisis I will be keep making money (money from the interests in isk and the related gain in euros ).
BUT for being able to do this you need an initial capital. Now I have a complete salary that I am getting in interests every month. I have 0 debts. I just have paid for everything I own. As I am spanish and swiss I have been that lucky of having my countries pay for my education. And I have don’t have to pay a coin back. Most of the icelandic students need to take study loans. And then you say this is a welfare society and that you are rich. I don’t think you are making an interesting bet for the future of your nation when you make the young and competent brains get heavily in debt. I feel sorry for the young students in this country. They get in debt for studying, then it comes taken a loan for the house, the car, it is just too much.
I don’t think this is a welfare society like the other scandinavian countries where education is tuition-fee free ( here the Listaháskóla, for example, charge 280.000 isk to students per annum) while in Sweden, Norway and Denmark education is for free and you get strong support from the state, especially if you have limited resources. The same social welfare politics we have in Spain, Germany and other EU countries. For example, in Spain education is not for free, but if your parents have limited resources you get a grant from the state that covers your tuition fees and all your basic costs of studies (books, rent, food) and you don’t have to pay it back.
I just feel sorry for this country because people has been taken around by a mafia of govern and bankers. You got all fooled by the idea of being rich, you started taking loans to buy and live at a level much above you can afford. And now many people is loosing everything. No, it is not a funny scenario to look at. And I do not celebrate the misery of this country. I do not celebrate that people are loosing their homes, and that many families will have horrible families. This society has been living in a cloud. And icelandic society has been mentally masturbating with the idea of being rich. If you only had been more cautious and less arrogant. Take better care of your moneys, save. and get only in debt in the necessary amount. But hey guys, this country will get better with time and this society will turn into a better and more human society, not the club of Gods it has been during the last years. A society where there is no first and second class people.
I have lots of friends here, from every nation and icelandic as well. But, this society needs to be more human than it is. I have been inviting my icelandic friends to eat at my place many times because I know, even if they don’t want to recognize it. Most of them have problems to even buy food those days, as many have lost their jobs and are struggling for paying a roof on their heads for their families. And when foreigners say they complain about being situated as second class people in this country you should really listen to it, because it is a serious and honest claim. My intention is not to blame icelandic society, but to make you understand that this society needs profound changes. Icelandic population is formed by a diversity of cultures, not only of national origins but also of sexual tendencies, religions, political beliefs etc… It is time for deconstructing the identity of this society, throw the old conceptions and make place for the new ones.
“Actually I find it rather strange that this legal situation obviously has been called into question in Iceland.”
Indeed. Because, after all, these are European laws, and when all 27 member states agreed in their interpretation, Haarde had no chance at all to get away with his idea of a loophole. And this shouldn’t have come as a surprise for him.
“When there is a disagreement about what exactly those legal obligations are, the proper venue to resolve them should be in the relevant European courts.
Just because a country is larger and more powerful, this should not automatically mean they be able to force the solution they want on smaller country, without first giving proper legal justification, that will hold up in court.”
Bjarni, the legal position is actually rather obvious and absolutely clear. (It has been explained on these pages by one user a couple of days ago.) The state in question has to ensure that the fund is able to guarantee the savings up to 20.000 Euro. When all is said and done this means that in the upshot the state has to uphold this guarantee. Actually I find it rather strange that this legal situation obviously has been called into question in Iceland. Furthermore, the whole structure of the financial market of the EEA depends upon this legal precondition, because otherwise countries like Iceland (or other small nations) could expand their banking sector regardless of the consequences, and the other states of the EEA would be forced to pay for this.
In my very humble opinion it could have been rather catastrophic for Iceland had it taken the whole matter to court. The outcome would have been clear, but it would have been rather less clear whether the Netherlands, Britain or Germany would have been prepared to co-operate with Iceland the way they now did.
I am afraid that this whole business does not have that much to do with small states and powerful states, but rather with the obvious legal situation.
To Peter – London:
>>>>AKA – find a way to delay if not avoid paying their legal obligations. Icesave was allowed to operate in the EU because it guaranteed the accounts. Therefore there was no legal case to argue.
When there is a disagreement about what exactly those legal obligations are, the proper venue to resolve them should be in the relevant European courts.
Just because a country is larger and more powerful, this should not automatically mean they be able to force the solution they want on smaller country, without first giving proper legal justification, that will hold up in court.
Gus would appear to be living in am infantile “creative” world of his fantasies where facts are not referenced or valued but one where boasts replace reality.
“I have more than 10.000.000 millions in Isk”
That would be Kr10 trillion, wouldn’t it?
Not bad going for someone with just 2 Masters and a PHD in Economics.
>instead of Iceland’s preferred way of resolving the legal dispute by European courts.
AKA – find a way to delay if not avoid paying their legal obligations. Icesave was allowed to operate in the EU because it guaranteed the accounts. Therefore there was no legal case to argue.
Gus,
I agree that you don’t need to speak Icelandic to be respected but I noticed a big difference when I did speak it compared to English one day as an experiment.
You have some points regarding Racism, I can understand your frustration, I too have been called ”Helvitis Útlendingur”etc and heard people talking about me in Icelandic not knowing that I can speak Icelandic, but again They are a minority of people.
I’m sure in your country or your parents country, there will be people just as rude and negative towards non-citizens.
Not every Icelander is a bigot, racist or has an agenda against foreigners.
I read them, thanks. Nothing new there that was not covered ad nauseam in ft.com reports.
Any other hidden conditions like having to stay to the ISK as someone else suggested above?
Any idea of when they float the ISK? (Or enough political rumblings to warrant a new election with a request to try € or something??)
To Interested:
You can read more details about the IMF loan here:
http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2008/pr08296.htm
http://www.imf.org/external/country/ISL/index.htm
There is very little on paper on what the actual conditions were, as those are typically negotiated based on economic plan submitted by the country in question. From what I heard, there were no really difficult conditions in the agreement that the Icelandic government was not already willing to accept.
The main issues that are now debated in Iceland is whether the Icelandic Central Bank should keep the interest rate high (to try to keep foreign money in) vs. keeping it low (to help keep the Icelandic economy stay afloat) and when the Icelandic krona should be floated again soon.
There was a hidden condition to the loan itself, in that it was necessary for Iceland to get commitments for additional 3-4 billion dollars in loans as part of the total package, in order for the IMF loan to be accepted. The EU countries managed to block these loan commitments, until Iceland promised to guarantee the first 20K deposits in UK, Netherlands and Germany.
This created a catch-22 situation for Iceland, eventually forcing to accept this guarantee, instead of Iceland’s preferred way of resolving the legal dispute by European courts.
¤Bjarni
What did the IMF require of your country as far as loan conditions?
gus-To are so cool, and smart, making all that money! But you are still a miserable person. ‘Peace of mind’ is much better than cash. It is possible to have both but it seems you do not.
To Gus:
Considering that you are saying that you have a Ph.D. and two master degrees, you do not seem to be very smart about money.
You say you have now 10M in ISK which you got from “buying and reselling Euros back-and forward since this crisis started”. Then in the next sentence you are gloating that when the Euro gets to 250ISK you will triplicate your money.
With the ISK going down, you will either go down with it if you keep your money in ISK, or stay the same in real-terms if you keep it in in Euros. It doesn’t matter much in reality if you see your money calculated in ISK grow, since at the same time the actual worth of the ISK currency is going down.
Playing in the foreign exchange market, is a very dangerous zero-sum game, in which many people, lot smarter than you, have gotten hurt.
And by the way, since there are now heavy restrictions on trading with foreign currencies in Iceland, exactly how were you able to buy and resell Euros? Black-market maybe?
GUS YOU ARE MY HERO,IF YOU UNDERSTAND SPANISH… macho tu eres un fenomeno, yo te quiero de presidente de esta nación. FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!
Broomley, I have more than 10.000.000 millions in Isk that I have got after buying and re-selling euros back-and forward since this crisis started. I got to buy USA dollars and EUROS again when they were at 95isk and 137isk… now they are around 140 isk and 176isk. And wait until the euro get to 250isk or more!!!! Then I will at least triplicate my money!!! It seems that new icelanders (people of foreign origin) are the only ones making a huge profit now!!. I am getting so rich, that I laugh all the way to the shops buying anything I want… After some weeks I will go with all my money, buy a car and a house at a very cheap price from the hands of any poor icelander and pay at all once!!! YES GOD EXISTS, KARMA EXISTS!!!
And what icelanders don’t want to tell about is that the first people to arrive and colonize this island were not only irish monks but also celtic, irish and basque fishermen from the north of Spain and France, much more before Norwegians got to know about this place. Even the romans are believed to have been here on the country in different expeditions. If those scientific proofs are true, well, then I am pretty Icelandic myself… HAHHAHAHAHAHAH. Do you know what is the word for WOMAN in many dialects in the north of Spain? It is “KONA”…. Go to Galicia and you will find out, that you are not that pure race of Vikings as you always have defended to be. You cannot find as many people with dark hair and brown eyes in this high percent in the other nordic countries… Then more than 7.000 french and basque fishermen where in Egilstaðir and the eastern coast of Iceland interbreeding ( copulating with icelandic women) for more than a century. I have always wondered why Icelandic women are so open to copulate with foreigners… I have heard many funny stories about the american and english soldiers’ relations with icelandic females during the WWII… Icelanders, where is the pureness you talk so much about? When are you going to recognize that you have been always mixing? You know this word “DAMA”, is a spanish word? And many other words thought to be icelandic are also of french, basque or celtic origin… came on!! I can’t accept anyone talking to me bullshit when my ancestors wrote books about how was it to live here much more before the scandinavians arrived.
I AM HERE ONLY AS “GUS”. And really, you should listen to what the bast majority of foreigners are saying in this very point of icelandic history. And change it into better.
WAW FISHY, I love you! It is true, Icelanders should be the hard workers they always where and open the factories to process fish. And use the almost cheap energy. And have a diversified economy. We could do much better. And I say we could. We cannot keep throwing shit to each others face the whole way. But the whole icelandic society needs to listen to the foreigners who have been living here for many years and have contributed to this country in many was and are ready to keep working for it. And yes, I have job here for a long time as I cannot abandon the institution I am working for, specially during this difficult times. I could go to other country and earn three and even four times more than I am getting here. But I have acquired some level of responsibility for this country and I am going to stay. But I NOW CLAIM FOR SOME RESPECT. Because we are not going to be able to built up this country if we, ALL AND EVERY ONE OF US, don’t join together to do our best…
And Kevin, you don’t need to speak icelandic for people to respect you as the human being your are. You deserve respect even if you can only communicate by sign language. I speak perfectly Icelandic. It is not about the language, it is about people.
I have been to many countries and people where so nice to me ( I speak 10 languages) but if I have seen myself interacting with people in another country and we did not have another way of communication but just by using sign language, and they were always smiling and nice to me.
About racism in Spain and Portugal. There is a huge difference between those countries and Iceland. The difference is that foreigns perception is that icelanders, in general, are racists and discriminatory with foreigners. Most of the times this happens in subtle ways. Most of the icelanders have used to look at foreigners as if they were all from third world countries. The higher economic level of icelanders is what gave them think they had the right to do so, as they were apparently richer, to think that their society was somehow better and consider foreigners as second class people.
I have a Ph.D., two masters degree, speak 10 languages, have lots of moneys in the bank and I have to say thanks to life for being blessed with a handsome face and fit body. ( I haven’t complained about having bad sex here, hahahaah :D) But still, I have seen how low educated, non-polite, icelanders had always tried to look down at me. And this is the impression of the majority of foreigners I know here. And I cant laugh more when I see people like that. Because I am a mix of north and mediterranean because of my parents being from different countries. I grew up mostly in Africa and have studied in some of the best universities of the world. And then I see people who think to be at a higher level than me because they thought of their country be the richest in the world and because they could get HUGE loans from the banks to support their ARTIFICIAL WAY OF LIFE. And sorry but, after meeting PUCHS of those individuals in a dairy basis, I cannot hide my satisfaction in seeing how all their lies are falling down letting them naked and being just what they are.
Sorry to tell but this society NEEDED this to happen. I feel sorry for icelanders and you will probably do much better in the future. But you cannot achieve anything with arrogance. You need to learn, be people always to listen and learn, open to recognize when you don’t know something.
And again, the only way we can built up this country is by having some sense of integrity and respect. I really think that icelanders could do much better. And yes I have an icelandic family that are like the parents I never had and they have done just everything for me… But still, I have been treated like a shit by many people in this country in numerous opportunities. I have been insulted, pushed, treated differently, etc.. etc… And then when I open my mouth and speak Icelandic no one could tell that I have been here only 4 years. Because I speak it almost perfectly. ( Ég er bara að segja þar sem mér finst rétt að segja akkurat núna. Ég á rétt að fólk beri virðingu fyrir mig, svo ég sé ekki fæddur hér á landi. Mér finst nú vera orðinn íslendingur. En maður nennir ekki að gera það sem best er fyrir landið ef maður er ekki gefið tækifæri til þess, og, ef fólk er til sem kunna ekki mannaseiði.
ALAN, I am not from Finland, and if I am an idiot it has to be Iceland the only country in the world where they give Ph.D. degrees in Economy to ignorants… (as me? because I am an idiot with TWO Masters and a Ph.D. degree).
I have many places where I talk about what I think… I am so happy that I cannot even believe HOW MUCH MONEY I HAVE DONE OUT OF THIS COUNTRY SINKING ECONOMY HAHAHAHAHAHAH, I wake up everyday with such a smile on my face!! :D I have done so well in this country, that is my country now, after being so many years here….
What I am celebrating is the collapse of a society that did not deserve to exits any longer, a society of oppression and inequity. Icelanders of foreign origin do claim a minimum of respect. We claim this society to change in many aspects, be open to other cultures and ways of living, new knowledge. We can construct a great country together, but we need to do it together and we cannot rebuild it if we don’t support each other… YOU NEEDED US, YOU NEED US and you will always need us. I love this country so much as, as much as any other icelander. But I HATE TO BE TREATED LIKE A SHIT AND LOOKED DOWN when I am doing so much for this country.
Hey Kevi, social services available for children? WAKE UP!! Sports, that are generally offered for free by public institutions in the EU cost a lot in Iceland. Ask parents how much do they pay for having their children going to play football, or something else…
OH, I AM NOT LOOSING MONEY AT ALL!!! I just have been buying and selling euros again and again, and always winning as the króna falls!!! This crisis of yours has made me inmensily rich!!! Wait until the EURO gets to 300 isk or more!!! Poor foreign workers are the only ones who are going to have an excellent life here!!! Because we just have been saving and working, saving and working, saving and working… While the lazy icelanders are loosing homes, cars, and Gods knows what more… You better pray for foreigners here not abandoning the country with our moneys… because it represents a huge bite of what Iceland has today. Thanks to our hard work and saving…
Icelanders are all around the world, Canada, USA, Denmark, Australia, just name it!! Did you know that the biggest Icelandic population is in Canada??And then they have always complained of having foreigners here…
Hey fishy, where are you going to get the 1000 euro, in the black market that is going on in front of the very self Central Bank of Iceland. No, you really need to listen to this, now that we have the opportunity of SPEAKING OUT after so many years of repression. They say that those who laugh the last laugh the better!!! Please treat foreigners as well as icelanders are treated outside. And remember that Iceland is a country of emigrants, You are presented all around the world and in HUGE communities. Iceland has a population of 320.000 peopple. 60.000 thousand live and WORK outside the country!!!! And then you treat foreigners in your country like shit. And now that you live (well survive) on international help, don’t you think this society should learn how to respect other human beings???
You have a lot left as a society, specially concerning human aspects… the sooner you start working on it the better. I don’t think I am wrong as this is the general opinion of the majority of foreigners living in this country. Ask icelanders living abroad how people do treat them…. and you will see the difference.
orchafine: let me ask you..You took the chance as we the “others”, as of now….right?
Kevi
Finally, some one which comes with a respectful comment in the immigration subject!
Some immigrants will be angrier about it, others, the lucky ones can come with a well balance reflection.
It is really important to point out the negative aspects and mistakes of a system, to not repeat again and again. I mean, what Iceland went through with immigration, it already happen before with other countries.
I guess some people don’t really care. They stay in their selfish world until they have to change things because it starts to be annoying for their own living. Does it have to be like that?
BillyHill>>> was right. Watch http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Guys I came in this country for love. I used to live in London, and there I had more money than here, more more money. In fact I came with 5 millones of Kronan. The job I have is shit job and I don´t get enought. So I am here because my patner is icelandic. OK.
There’s a lot of things going on in this forum and thought I’d add my say to this.
I’m working in Reykjavík at the moment and I am a foreigner. Iceland is a small country that has not seen the large amounts of Immigration that it is/has experienced since the early 2000s, I think only 10 years ago, foreigners made up around 1% of the population and now(well at least few months back) it was around 7-8%. No matter where you are in the world, you will encounter racism, some people are narrow minded. I have been called a ‘fucking foreigner’ by a minority of people, usually when Drunk and maybe they are jealous, maybe they are insecure or maybe they have a genuine dislike for Foreigners but I’m sure it would happen in my own country and happens all around the world.
Icelanders are a hardworking bunch, who still have a great sense of pride. They work the longest hours in Western Europe and a great emphasis is always placed on family life, the social services available to children, adults and OAPs is truly fantastic with excellent Youth Clubs, Groups and Clubs available for everyone.
It’s always difficult going to a new country and trying to adapt and fit in, especially if you are going to an Island that has been isolated for many years in the North Atlantic with a different language, I don’t think anyone can intergrate into a new community without learning the language and I’ve met many foreigners who have made no effort at all to learn even a few basic words, I’m not perfect in Icelandic but I can get by but I find most Icelanders are very helpful, friendly, surprised and happy that foreigners speak Icelandic (even if it’s not perfect).
I did an experiment one day , where I spoke nothing but English in a Café house, Shops and whenever I could on the streets and It felt a bit cold with basic answers and not much interest, no smiling from the staff. I spoke Icelandic the second day, and found people were friendlier, smiling and also encouraging me to speak it more.
When large groups of foreigners from a certain place move to another place, It is only natural to ‘stick together’, they share cultural links, language and can help each other through the settling in period and if winter, the dark days of Iceland. Of course, It is nice to have friends from your country but you are more than likely to stick with them and make no effort to learn the language or meet the locals as you wouldn’t need to, you can socialse in a language you feel comfortable.
The foreign workers in Iceland have contributed a heck of a lot this nation and worked very hard in the process, Iceland needed foreigner workers and they came. They are hardworking, honest and usually like a drink on the weekends, does it sound like anyone? Yes, Icelanders. Also a lot are going to stay through the crisis and help build the country up again and contribute to the ‘Nytt Ísland’
I think Gus is royally pissed off. Maybe he is one of the foreign workers in iceland, who saved his money, and wants to go home now, as probably there is no more job for him.
And probably cannot transfer the money abroad or take it from the bank, before leaving for good.
Dear icelanders, I would be pissed off too. And please, how DARE you talk bad about foreign workers, who helped your economy while it was in desperate shortage of labor force? While you were forced to employ kids with bad attitude (there is an article about the level of service in iceland somewhere, and it describes how arrogant young icelandic workforce has become because of low unemployment).
And, yes, people came to iceland to work for money. What did you expect them to? Work for free? And yes, since you are effectively and technically bankrupt and unable to provide well paind work, they are going home. You should thank them – they will not burden your welfare system, and they probably contributed heavily in the form of taxes when times were good.
Surely I think people of iceland still did not clear the terms regarding money, obligations and so on…
I bet I would be as pissed of as Gus if that would happen to me what (as I understood) is happening to him.
# Olof Asdis
Right behind you with your fish processing theory.
Stop sending unprocessed fish abroad. Ive been saying this for years
If we process all fish to the final stage in Iceland this would create many jobs and in turn give much more tax into our economy.
All the people who think they are too good to work in fish GET OVER IT ,YOUR NOT
IT IS FAR MORE HONEST THAN INVESTMENT BANKING
Remember ICELAND was built on fish …….
orchafine ;old saying = ”I met a very smart person and he thinks just like I do”.
Nice comment BillyHill.
STAN, I know you mean well, but your comment is not constructive at all.
I don’t think you realize, but you are insulting millions of people.
BillyHill. I think that video has an agenda :) .
Seriously, anything that goes on about the dehumanising effect of using machines is right out on the furtherest point of the limb. Maybe Icelanders should row out in wooden boats to fish rather than trawl?
For those of you happy about the IMF and blind to its consequences – I suggest you go to the following website and view the movie “ZEITGEIST: ADDENDUM”
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
At the 25:30 minute mark and onward it will clearly describe how IMF loans effect countries bound to these loans. Scary it is. I could totally see a lot of this happening here ie Power Companies privatized and bought by foreigners to pay debt, big environmentally hazardous industry moved here due to energy resources, lots of power plants built everywhere, refineries… A lot of this has actually been discussed the past years but met resistence (if it has not already materialized). Is this the future? I am sure many of the “businessmen” and politicians here would sell out their beautiful countries resources FOREVER if they made a short term profit. Iceland should instead focus on ecologically sustainable tourism (ie upper end with a limited amount of tourists that pay well instead of seasonable mass tourism that brings nothing) through cooperation (difficult here indeed in the Land of Kings and know-it-alls)and creating a high quality level of standard and service. The hardware is here – Iceland is a unique pearl that has immense potential in upper end if marketed and managed correctly. All it needs is the software; ie educated and trained services giving quality return and a high level of upper end customer satisfaction. I am afraid that this is hard to realize here with the attitude in society as Icelanders always seem to know best and never want any input – however necessary it may be – into their decisions or society. Look at the current situation with the banks – only Icelanders made this mess as they believed they knew best and used NO foreign influence or competence in their decisions. Despite being warned. The same applies for example in the energy and tourist sectors where basically all people in key positions are Icelandic and no influence is allowed on board. This I know for a fact. If Icelanders would instead use some of the things the world can offer and use human resources from abroad as an asset into their society I believe they would be greatly successful and that many problem could/can be averted. But this craves a different attitude than the present one “Island fyrir Islenningar” that is bound to haunt you and turn you into a long term loser for may years to come. Iceland is – I live here and will stay trying avidly to change this – a very racist and closed socirty. There is no doubt about this. The problems we presently have here a partially related to this. If you Native people cannot accept this then you are blind. Try instead to develop your tourism, refine your resources here instead of exporting your resources elsewhere (fish, aluminum, eventually oil, energy…), fight for your independence of thought & resources (do not let IMF goals take over this beautiful country), free your minds to let a broader perspective positively influence your society and take up the motto “Island fyrir gott folk frá heila Heimurinn” instead. Arrest, try and imprison all the crooks (businessmen, bankers and politicians) that out of greed led to the current miserable state of affairs and let not nepotism and family ties stand in the way of justice. This would earn respect abroad. Then you have great possibilities of long term success. Have a nice day btw!
i think what gus and others experianced was not racism from the icelanders at all, i think they experianced a dislike towards the idiots, Icelanders dont suffer fools easy, i lived in Iceland for 20 years and never once did any one show me racism and i have never heard an icelander talk in such away, i think its time for the poeple who are doing the put down and dont like icelanders look at the truth and that truth is these poeple do not like them selfs at all,
GET HELP
”A lot of immigrants are morally traumatized by their stay in Iceland. We shouldn’t forget why they are going to other countries”–You are going to other countries to make money to send back home, plain and to the point. If Iceland is so BAD, then why not stay in your own country and change legislation to raise the rate of pay, for your labour, and quality of life? Also, I am sure that if any immigrant, or local person, is dressed decently,is bathing,and keeps his/her head held high and is respectful, then that person will have fewer problems and not feel like a loser/reject.
Val >>> I NEVER felt ANY racism, for the time I have been living here ( 7 years)
Then you either are Scandinavian or you just went out of your home peest drunk on weekends…
You can’t possibly be sincere and say you never heard Icelandic black humor. They might be for Icelanders funny, but I will understand that for an immigrant is inhuman.
Not talking about all the segregation speeches towards other invading “cultures”.
In my opinion the problem here, is the same with crisis, a bust of capital and bubble economy. To keep up the cadence, Iceland had to burn normal steps of developing countries. No laws or either moral studies where made to the internal immigration in Iceland. I am talking here about integration, acceptance and respect of others cultures. A lot of immigrants are morally traumatized by their stay in Iceland. We shouldn’t forget why they are going to other countries, trying to make their life better.
A nation accepting an immigration mass, should back up morally and logistically this wave. Not treating them as garbage. We use them, and then when we have no use for them, through it out…
Mmmm. Whenever you move to another place, be it a new town, a new job or a new country, you take a risk. You step outside your comfort zone. If you don’t fit in with this new culture, then you will quickly become disillusioned, confused, maybe angry and depressed. Especially during an Icelandic winter.
Iceland is a special place. It is VERY SMALL. And this means that if the Icelanders do like you, they will treat you as one of their own, accept you in to their their wonderful, special society. If you don’t fit in, your time here will be a much tougher and less rich experience.
I have been here a few years now. From the moment i arrived i have felt ‘at home’. I am lucky, i know. Put me in another culture though, and the story probably wouldn’t be the same.
But then again, i did not choose to stay here just to make money and then leave. I did so because i was intrigued by this strange, beautiful lump of rock exploding out of the north atlantic.
Some aspects of this society drive me nuts, most of which have been covered by many of the posts here. But my biggest gripe is that many Icelanders (particularly those living in Reykjavik, a place which i loath) seemed to have chosen to forget the roots and the values that made them who they are. Many are only still but 2 or 3 generations removed from the farmers and fishermen of their ancestry. Most old people here have been shocked and uneasy about the changes to their society in such a short time. But many younger Icelanders have been very proud to inform me that their country is the most expensive in the world.
Nuts.
And it could only end one way. Now though, i think that many of those people are re-evaluating their lives and values.
Life has always been tough here, for all but the richest. And that is probably how it always will be. But the benefits far out way the costs; it is a very safe, open society and there is still an amazingly high level of trust amoung the population, which i have rarely found elsewhere.
So, I am staying right here – at home, in my little wooden house on the north atlantic shore.
I’ve lived here for over 35 years, married an Icelander and am the proud father of two beautiful girls and the proud grandfather of six delightful grandchildren. I’ve personally not experienced any overt racism but I’ve sensed an unexplicable xenophobia and naiveté in many Icelanders. Witness some of the milk commercials on the local TV. Nonetheless, some of my best friends are Icelanders. Now, when is this currency float supposed to take place?
Reading the posts from Gus or Espana I have very little difficulty figuring out why they felt racism.
As a foreigner living in Iceland I have never felt obvious racism and neither many of my friends from all horizons (Japan, Germany, Poland, Columbia, etc…). Icelanders have always been interested and very open minded.
Pack your bitterness and leave instead of bashing us with your unfounded diatribe.
Gus is entitled to his/her opinion, If I was in the same shoes I’d probably be pissed as well.
But you are taking it over the top, Yes he/she is right in my opinion on that the flow of money got out of hand in “certain” parts of Iceland, Iv’e seen that myself, and the result is, people get greedy and start to think of themselfs a bit more than usual.
Only positive thing I think we will see from this, is that people will get more real, back to the way it was.
Hi,
One more foreigner here.
For the 2 last months, I have been reading a lot here, and today, I feel like i have to do something, and not let this guys in the previous comments, say all and nothing about what is life in iceland when you are not icelandic.
I NEVER felt ANY racism, for the time I have been living here ( 7 years)
Icelanders are proud of their country, and are right to be so. Iceland is a great land and country (nation), icelanders are full of resources. Just the politic field is a mess ( more than a mess actually)( well banks as well, …)
What I think is that you are SO frustrated ( gus and Co) for some reason, and scared also, that you have to blame someone… and the one who is already kneed know is the easiest pray.
you are pathetic and honestly, we won’t miss you! Bye!!!
I will stand with Iceland, I trust Icelanders ( normal people I mean, not the politics) and want to help…
A small country might be easily broked down, but it is much easier to fight side by side when you are few…. we will make it!
I just have a question … can someone check the IP address of Gus, manisman and espana … I would bet they are the same person… )
val
val
“Jesus gays you scare me. Please open your eyes. Thanks”
The gays scare me to Espana, just kidding :)
we are nationalists thats true, we love our country,
there are racists here, but there are alot more of them in Spain, to point out how wrong you are,
our first lady Dorrit Moussajef (wife of president)
is from Palestine and Jewish, a beutyful and intelligent woman who we are very proud of
no one ran against them in the end of last term
so they were re elected automatically,
this is a picture of one of our best athletes holding a silver medal at the Beijing Olimpics 08
for handball, his name is Alexander Peterson and is from Lithuania, now Icelandic
http://www.mbl.is/mm/frettir/popup/mynd.html?imgid=476835;nid=1360882
my older daughters best friend is from Africa and one of my sons best friends is from the Philippenes
both with dark skin colour,
most of us dont want people here who hate us or our way of life, but if you decide to learn Icelandic and blend in, it means you will have to eat haggis and rotten shark, and wash it down with some sweet tasting brennivín
then i promise you you will feel very welcome.
to make a long story short your wrong ;)
and gus, when you finaly get your money out, use some of it to get therapy, your gona need it,
if you look at recent history and see how thorougly the government and centralbank screwed up everything they they touched its fairly obvious that they will float the krona very soon and see what it does on its own, it will crash, burn and die, bon voyage Gus, it was a pleasure to have you here.
gus you are an idiot!
Iceland will become back one of the richests country of Europe.There is already found oil!
I am glad that you go out of Iceland and hope you never come back here
There has been one very positive side effect of all this crisis – that people like Gus, españa or manisman will finally leave Iceland – together with the others who hate Iceland and who have been staying there just because they were earning good money.
They will finally enjoy “their countries’ paradise” – however they will have to work there (and not sit on the beach drinking Mochito paid by strong kronur like they previously had supposed)…and then maybe they will realize that it was not so bad to work and live on Iceland.
Finally – there will stay just people who really love Iceland….does not matter if its own citizens or foreigners….it is like switch from “money-based marriage” to “love-based marriage”.
I can just say guys – good luck (I doubt you will be happy anywhere) – and God save any country where you would decide to stay in the future.
“Yet one of the conditions set by the IMF for the loan is that Reykjavik float its currency, which risks causing a further depreciation of the krona.”
(Source – http://www.todayonline.com/articles/288368.asp)
What are the IMF conditions? Did this mean that the IMF restricted Iceland to staying (short term at least?) to the Icelandic Krónur?
OK..So..We got the loan…I mean ..loans..anyway..I think it is time to increase our GNP…If we do not do that..our children and grandchildren will suffer major depression setbacks…My idea is look at the country´s current national products…fish and energy.
..First we need to stop shipping fresh fish to other countries for producing. Open up all the closed fish factories on the island and get people back to work..working together to increase the NP is the only way to prevent our children from suffering…Also..Iceland´s natural energy..We have future plans for fiber-optic storage..but we need to work together with other countries for inexpensive and “Earth-safe” manufacturing developments…(at least until the ability to ship raw energy gets discovered)….We Icelanders as a Nation must stand up and work together to rebuild what has been destroyed and increase our worth…Just because we fell victim first to the butterfly effect of the depression in the States..does not mean we have to take it laying down….The Icelandic Government just has to listen to the people better…and start somewhere in rebuilding our economy, especially since we have soooo many loans to pay now..start rebuilding by taking one baby step at a time…Re-establish the fish factories worth by processing it on the homeland!
Fishy
Me too I want a ticket or maybe you can’t get any more loans?
Porto wine
You are right about your comments. You just forgetting to add in all the racist thing, is that Iceland is so called a modern country… if you start to compare Portugal with Iceland, Icelanders will start to suicide in mass…
GUS you tottaly right you did say every thing i wanna say thanks gus
@gus, about sending money to abrod banks, i can say that i not experience any special prob., just fill the request form and in 7 days the money is in my portuguese acount( i send 6.500 euros in 2 months, so this system is not so bad).
@espana, racism is every where, in our country too, and a lot by the way.
just 2 months ago the police dismantle a mafia network that was using slaves from my country, u have to see what hapens there before u make any argument about the people from here ( i work in a african country for 3 years, and i can tell u that they are racist too against the foreners).
in portugal we use and abuse of brasilians, moldavians, ukranians, and africans too.
the system is in every country , from america to europe , from asia to africa.
EVERYWHERE.
Gus you are the best. Someone who says the true. Almost all icelandic are racist and now they are gonna be more with us. Gus how you explain is correct and I can´t say more.
Fishy sorry but that was racist to give money to someone to leave the country and not come back. If I was Gus i will take the money to spend and after I will ask for more. Like the banks do here. And we don´t need read more about your society, we can see in the restaurant, cinemas, theater, talking with all of you, icelandic, some of you, don´t know about the capital cities of Europe and even the lenguage in too many countries around of the world.
Sorry but Gus is right. I know to be nationalist is very nice but you have to see the people are around of you in your country. I had never have any problems in another country which I used to leave. But here is horrible, not manners on the stress, not manners in the clubs, not manners in the restaurant.. Jesus gays you scare me. Please open your eyes. Thanks
fishy. In amongst that tirade was this:
“Work so many years to just see how they cannot even get what is left of their savings out of the country. AUTHENTIC STATE REPRESSION.
They only let you take certain amount of money if you want to move back to your country. But you have to write letters and wait until your case is considered. BANKS ARE NOT WORKING NORMALLY AT ALL!! Everyday we see more and more restrictions in the way we can move or use our money.”
So it looks like your 1000 euros is safe – he can’t get his money out. Although, if he only had 300,000 krona saved . . .
Gus im a guy who talks straight so guess what im going to talk straight to you (are you from Finland)
your an idiot, you know nothing of what you talk of
please when are you leaving , you see Iceland will still be going strong again when you will be on the dole in some other place, moaning about the country your in and screaming how life is so unfair to you , the only place you have a voice is in here and its getting to the point were poeple dont read you , poeple just laugh at you ,you got some thing more to say then i will give you my phone number, Icelanders are great poeple i should know my boys are Icleandic
On Nov 20, 2008, fishy said:
”You talk about how Icelanders hate foreigners,Do you think that your post will improve on that opinion?”
Having read your posts over the last week or two,I think you personaly have already done that with your pathetic sniviling posts but showing the decent readers of this forum just how pathetic you really are..
all i can say, allt ‘eg mja segir er pessi….
eg sjaumst islandi i morgun !!!!!
in 8 hours i’m on the next flight out of boston, coming home !
after all, there is so much more to iceland than it’s economic affairs….
if you don’t understand the affect of esja and flaxafloi, then you don’t understand iceland
oh my god Gus, you are messing up all (!) the facts. I feel sorry for you maybe losing a lot of money and I understand parts of your anger towards icelandic nationalism and racism, but your reaction is just crazily over the top.
You have to read more about the icelandic society and get informed, so that you dont mix up your own personal emotions of anger and despair with the real facts of this society. There is much to criticis – no doubt, but you really failed…
#GUS
I will give you 1000 Euro and a air ticket to your choice destination. If you promise to leave us tomorrow.
You talk about how Icelanders hate foreigners,Do you think that your post will improve on that opinion?
No Euro (currency), No Iceland!!!
Jesus, Gus…
ICELANDIC ICED ECONOMY STILL MELTING DOWN!! 1 EUR= 300 ISK SOON!!
Keep dreaming and telling stories of the vikings to try to make this country look good for foreign investors… IT JUST WONT WORK AGAIN AS IT DID ONCE. You have to pay here anytime you go to a doctor at the “public” health system, just if you where going to a private clinic in other european countries (where public health services are FOR FREE)
Talking about the icelandic language: the way you are preserving it has not allowed the language to change and evolute in a way that new concepts are created to fulfill the needs of knowledge at higher educational level.
At universities most of the departments are formed by people educated in USA, UK and nordic countries, good thing, but they did it at a media of 30 years ago. Things have changed a lot since then. This country can simply not train all the necessary professionals to develop the industrial, social and economic plans. Icelandic problem is deeper than just an economical crisis. THIS IS NOT A CONTEMPORARY MODERN SOCIETY. Just because you could see icelanders using internet and a laptop it does not mean that icelandic society has reached the level of social evolution achieved for example in other european countries. It is a lot left in a long term to achieve.
It would be fantastic if it was enough to write a law on paper to just make societies be. There is a lot of racial discrimination, specially against foreigners. The statistics show that Iceland is has one of the highest rates of SEXUAL ABUSE against women of the world. General culture of people is very low if you compare it with other european countries. Icelanders, specially at university level, think that they know everything and that no one from abroad can teach them something new. That is why they have became so self-centered and isolated of main questions in knowledge and research. They just don’t want things from other countries to be better than what they do here.
ICELAND IS VERY FAR FROM BEING A WELFARE STATE. Students get none if any help to study, almost all students need to take a bank loan. Society here is more similar to South American countries. A small group of people with incredible high salaries while most of the population just earn to survive. While Iceland has appeared as an economic example to the outside world, nobody really knew what was really going on. The majority of the population had problems to pay their houses and cars, and icelanders have only kept taken loans and more loans to apparently live a wealthy live. Now that the situation was not possible anymore people here are facing HORROR, because they are loosing everything. THIS IS WORST THAN IN ARGENTINA AND THIS COUNTRY HAS NOT THE HUMAN RESOURCES TO BUILD UP AN ECONOMY AGAIN, at least not in the next 10-20 years. They just don’t want to see it, but at the end they will.
Most of national and foreign skilled workers are leaving this country as I am writing this. And believe me, they probably wont come back to go through this again. Work so many years to just see how they cannot even get what is left of their savings out of the country. AUTHENTIC STATE REPRESSION.
They only let you take certain amount of money if you want to move back to your country. But you have to write letters and wait until your case is considered. BANKS ARE NOT WORKING NORMALLY AT ALL!! Everyday we see more and more restrictions in the way we can move or use our money.
I just don’t have any faith that this country will get better soon. There are big and profound changes to be done at social and political levels. ICELAND A WELFARE SOCIETY? HAHAHHAHAHA, I was laughing all my way home when I finally could find a bank which could let me convert my money into USA dollars. Thanks God, because GLITNIR bank stopped allowing customers to put their money into foreign currency at the bank. WHY DO THEY DO THAT WHEN THEY JUST GOT THE INTERNATIONAL LOAN? because they know that WE JUST WANT OUT!!! and we are not for seeing the rest of our savings blow up on the air… I will rather take my icelandic krónurs to use it as toilet paper NOW than see how they will get even massively more devaluated during the nexts weeks. It is worthy, as toilet paper, and most of the other products are getting very expensive here.
I bought a computer the other they, it costed 200.000, one day after it costed 270.000, WHAT IS TO COME NEXT? Even Argentina and Uruguay were inmensely more wealthier in natural resources than this ice piece of rock and see where they are now… they have been taking endless loans from IMF.
This country will not go up, forget it!! Joining the EU? Maybe, but this poor country should offer everything they have and more to try to get into the club of the reachest… It is just too late…
If I had some money on this iced country I will just try to get it OUT AND ASAP!! as everyone is trying now. So please!! OPEN THE DOORS, WE WANT OUT!!! (this situation remembers me of the movie Quarantine, everyone was trapped inside the house and they just didn’t let them out, until they changed themselves into monsters…)
As I said, currency exchange forecast starting in days ( and throughout the next two years)
1USD= 200-250 isk
1EUR =250-350 isk
BYE BYE ICELAND…
– UK will be lending approx £2.2B with regards to package.
– Loan figure represents existing outstanding liabilities to UK.
– Russia “indicated” it might extend funding to Iceland as well, expects Russia to contribute.
– Estimates cost of Iceland foreign deposit obligations at $5-6B.
http://www.tradethenews.com/forex-news/European-Macro/story/496878