Icelanders are becoming increasingly dissatisfied with the current situation going on in Iceland. Petitions for the Movement for a New Republic of Iceland are spreading around and carefully released figures are bringing shivers not only to those that feel for Iceland.
The Movement is begging Sweden and the International Monetary Fund in particular not to grant Iceland any financial help until ‘national and international credibility is reinstalled’.
An increasing number of people in Iceland are repeatedly calling for a total change of government, as the current one is blamed for having mismanaged the state economy and still, after four months, having no intention of amending what it caused. Since the start of the kreppa (the Icelandic term for financial crisis) there have been no changes at all made in the make-up of the government.
„No one has resigned and no one has been fired. They are hard at work at getting what little is left here back into the hands of those who crashed our economy to begin with,“ says one of the protesters who does not want to disclose his name.
„The people here are afraid and at the mercy of ruthless criminals that have nested not only in our government, but also in the businesses and banks. These banks were given to them through a faux privatisation in 2005, they have literally done nothing but spend money since, now it´s all gone, and you want to give them more?“ he continues.
According to the petition, figures show that 70 percent of all companies in Iceland are ‘technically bankrupt’ and so are 40 percent of all households. To top that, an increase in unemployment of some 45 percent in December, was reported by the Directorate of Labour. Icelandic unemployment has not been higher since January 1997.
Referring to the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia in 1989, the movement is suggesting a Fleece Revolution in Iceland.
Read the full statement of the Movement for a New Republic of Iceland at http://iceland-calling.this.is/ .
An Icelandic website http://nyirtimar.com/ shows the photographs and expressions of protestors.
I do feel bad for you guys in Iceland. I have a few friends that I communicate with over there and they just say that it is going downhill. Let’s try to keep the culture alive without killing off all rights.
The petition demanding for a complete change in the government has already been issued. They should choose the best movement to make a change.
Hi Fishy
Nice you are back. Good to hear that there still is good employment in the fish-processing industry. Maybe in the past years icelandic yuppies looked down upon people like you but first of all, you have no responsiblity at all for the present situation and secondly, it will depend on people like you to make sure Iceland will recover. I sincerely hope this will happen.
I understand the point you are making. A small society , isolated in the atlantic, sharing a unique language: somehow everybody is related to everbody else. Even in Holland this is somehow the case.
Unfortunately the whole way icelandic society has been constructed made it extremely vulnerable to the worldwide crisis.
Cheers.
ICELAND IS SINKING… LIKE A HEAVY STONE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN…
THE SITUATION HERE IS GETTING VERY VERY BAD. ALL MY FRIENDS ARE UNEMPLOYED, MOST OF THEM LEAVING THEIR OWN COUNTRY…
THE SITUATION HERE IS WORSE THAN I THOUGHT IT COULD GET… ICELAND MIGHT BE THE POOREST COUNTRY IN EUROPE NOW, MANY PEOPLE LIVE IN MISERY…
erry said:
“@Knowless
Your inclination to be gratuitously and aggressively offensive to fellow contributors detracts from the debate.”
——————————————————
I am not interested in your feelings or how you perceive an appropriate reply to your innacurate surmises.
If you want to add to a debate, remarking on anything I write, then desist with innacurate surmises.
< “From your comment, I assume that you advocate that banks should simply be left to fail in the real sense (not given assistance to continue trading by government)?”
No, I referred specifically to the Anglo Irish Bank, the speculators bank.
And the Irish government nationalising it.
< “If this were to be the case then surely that would validate my comment –”
As this is not the case your following comment has no validity
< “You suggest that it is appropriate that depositors should be trashed along with speculators. This is indeed what the Icelandic Banks did.”?
As pointed out, you have jumped the gun with your assumption based on a surmise.
FWIW I am more inclined towards the economists who call for a separation of the bad speculator debt into a separate bank, well away from the likes of saving deposits and homeowner mortgages.
@Niels
I must thank both Fisy and yourself for having a very good debate over the last few days, were you are both raising very good issues.
You said
“Nepotism may be valid in small country?? Did you ever travel abroad? In other countries it is highly unusual that somebody becomes mayor of the capital city, prime minister and after that president of the national bank. It is highly unlikely that somebody owns nearly all supermarkets and newspapers,controlling everything what the citizens will read or eat.”
I think this is mostly like a lot of the world exactly is.
Example
In U.S.A the families Kennedy’s and later the Bush’s
Also Wallmart control a huge portion of the grocery/pharmacy business in the U.S.A.
Unfortunately with icelands small population this is very
obvious.
Remember with only 300,000 people we don’t have
endless supplies of politicians and entrepreneurs.
Until relatively recent times most people here were either farmers or in the fish industry.
…and yes Nepotism Exists in Iceland it’s crime against the more qualified, talented, experienced workers.
Don’t be deceived that you’ll not experience Nepotism when you apply for employment, because the people actually hiring are related to friends with, sleeping with, or had incriminating evidence to favor the Bosses behind the scene, so they’ll rather hire one of their relatives or Aunt, or Uncle, or Cousin etc, and it might even be that the relative is a greenhorn.
@Fisy
++++++++++++++++++
Icleand banks in words of Portes:
“The Iceland problem was immediately vastly exaggerated.” He said the Icelandic banks had been unfairly targeted. “The world is a little unjust. They don’t hold any toxic papers. The assets they will have to sell are perfectly good assets. They have been prudently managed and haven’t been excessively dependent on the wholesale money markets compared to anyone else.”
++++++++++++++++++
Portes wrote this in SUMMER 2008 and BOY WAS HE WRONG!!
this is a clear proof of the fact that even intellectuals with some reputation can be wrong, especially if they have developed a blind spot for a special country.
well, even Galbraith was wrong when he predicted that communism was superior to capitalism, was he?
+++++++++++
On praising communism (or, “socialism with tears”), Galbraith was without peer among intellectuals. For example, who can forget his infamous 1984 quote that the communist system in the former Soviet Union was superior to capitalism because, according to Galbraith, the communists somehow made better and more efficient use of its “manpower” than did the West?
++++++++++++
BTW please take a look at the more recent writings of Portes in which he desperately tries to put the blame for the Kreppa on Oddson (in order to hide his own missjudgement) …you will like it.
However, while Portes was completely wrong in judging the icelandic banks last summer, others AT THE SAME TIME were much more realistic, have a look at this:
http://www.voxeu.eu/index.php?q=node/2498
And about Iceland and protectionism the following contribution from this excellent site: BTW the author is a leading lecturer form the university of Iceland:
http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/1387
++++++++++++++
>Who built an economic system entirely based on borrowing?
That is all banking systems in world.
++++++++++++++
Talking about jaw-flapping not being backed up by facts….
Outside of Iceland borrowing to such ridiculous extents like in Iceland did not take place. Here it was out of the question that some kid without a job and income could borrow enough money to buy a car.
++++++++++++++++++++
>Who made sure that nearly all economic activity in Iceland was in the hands of a small elite?
While claim nepotism may be valid in small counrty, it is not fault that all people are not equal except under law. Some people are good at doing new things taking risks and so on. There is small elite in all country if you take this way expressing it in your terms.
All peple in Iceland get rising tide effect of situation but mainly in ability to borrow money at high rates to buy things.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Nepotism may be valid in small country?? Did you ever travel abroad? In other countries it is highly unusual that somebody becomes mayor of the capital city, prime minister and after that president of the national bank. It is highly unlikely that somebody owns nearly all supermarkets and newspapers,controlling everything what the citizens will read or eat.
That everybody who is a bit rich and influential is somehow related to others: this is a form of economical incest which leads to corruption and inability.
You are pointing out that all people are different in ablility. That is correct. But exactly in a nepotist society like Iceland it is more important to be somebody’s cousin than to be an extremely able individual.
Abillities will not get you very far if you do not know the right people , right?
It is a fact that there was a small group of ‘outbound vikings’, cowboys or whatever you like to call them, linked to the political elite, being protected and able to do whatever they wanted in order to create a fortune at the expense of others. The fact that you refuse to see this and still defend/ignore this fact is the main reason why you attract so much abuse on this forum.
go ahead and do it with all bravery****
Icelanders please do not bother about what the police might do when you’re fighting for your right.
If it means Burning the Althingi( parliament) & the central bank to get your right, go ahead and do it will all bravery.
Those old geezers that messed up your economy deserves no mercy!!
Talk is cheap ….and you know action speaks louder that mere talking.!!!
Do not be a chicken head and shy away, thereby selling abandoning your right.
All the comments here about non-violence should not get stop you Icelanders to fight for your right and that of your children.
Say No to Corrupt governing practices!!
@Knowless
Your inclination to be gratuitously and aggressively offensive to fellow contributors detracts from the debate.
I will disregard much of your response to my earlier post. However, in particular – I would wish to seek clarification of some of your comment.
Within an earlier post you state-
>”Irish gov announce the nationalisation of Anglo Irish Bank, the property speculators bank,
In other words, the tax payer takes on a €30bn debt, a vapourized asset loaned out to propery speculators for them to purchase overpriced land for property development.”
I responded stating-
“The Eire government along with the rest of Europe, understand the importance of credibility, honour and obligation – to those using their banking services.
Following the decision to nationalise the ailing Anglo Irish Bank, the Eire government understood a concept that the Icelandic government could not. The Finance Minister stated –
“The worst thing that can happen from Ireland’s point of view is that a bank can fail,” said the country’s finance minister, Brian Lenihan, in a radio interview.
“If a bank fails, the damage to the country, the reputational damage to the country, in trashing deposits and refusing to honour obligations, would be enormous,” he added.”
You responded –
>“Bank failure is not the worst thing that can happen.
The banks in Ireland have failed,lets get that over with.
The worst thing that can happen economically for a country is for the Banks to fail AND the country goes further into massive debt in futile attempts to absorb the bad debts and the country is much worse off. In my example the taxpayer is absorbing the bad debts of property development speculators”
From your comment, I assume that you advocate that banks should simply be left to fail in the real sense (not given assistance to continue trading by government)?
If this were to be the case then surely that would validate my comment –
“You suggest that it is appropriate that depositors should be trashed along with speculators. This is indeed what the Icelandic Banks did.”?
I think I understand now why Steingrímur not for Icesave lawsuit.
As soon as sitting as say Minister Finance –god help us– or foreign he will be on first plane over to UK to thump Darling.
He does not want take legal route but route of “direct action” like protesters he liked and support so much.
Although they both had their Marxist love time in common at point in each lives, Darling is bad under pressure. Maybe threat of Steingrímur’s fist will put fear into him.
But wait — he green so no plane travel, take boat? And rent bicicle to get to Number 11 Downing Street not taxi obviously.
Or is maybe Steingrímur just loud mouthed thug with no real idea what doing?
>Resolution Committee Kaupthing made application 7 Jan at the High Court UK for judicial review. Action backed by Icelandic government.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Fisy, this is just a juridical REVIEW, basically a procedure to determine if it is possible at all to take legal action.
>It is not surprising that the icelandic authorities have chosen this way.
Because this means they can still HIDE.
>In a true procedure all authorities involved will have to testify and mr. Oddson and all the others are DEAD affraid to do so since it would expose all their shady dealings.
>Such a risk free procedure as a review is just window dressing: diverting attention from the real problems.
>I am absolutely certain that the icelandic elite will never dare to start a real procedure.
It is way that lawsuits work in UK. Have to prove standing to judge that plaintiff has standing to sue.
Same has happened from Northern Rock shareholders who bank was taken. They have to get judge approval first also.
So again, facts is not your friend. Crank down rhetoric and assumptions, do more reasearching please before post.
>I have said it before and I will say it again: Iceland took advantage of EU rules that it considered beneficial and ignored those that it did not like. Full implementation of EU directives never took place in Iceland and there is a simple reason for that.
You refuse to back that up with any fact. So without that it is jaw flapping only.
As I say above
What do you mean? Since Acts of 2002 incrporated EU directives it’s been open to EEA memberstate to operate here. If market was perceived here then foreign bank competitors welcome to compete.
>The clique around Oddson which has ruled Iceland wanted to control all economic activities in the country without having to deal with competition.
That is opposite of climate of whole 1991 to 2008 time. Time of opening all that can to competition, banking fiance being main one which include EU directives — that is where 10% of EU directives implemente under EEA mainly are.
>I have travelled quite a lot but apart from the former communist countries i NEVER came across a country with ony NATIONAL banks like Iceland.
That foreign bank decide not to enter market does not mean that they were prevented from doing so at all. Would help case making by specifc refernce to what stops them other than perceived market profits in competitive market for local people and busienssses accounts.
Privatised banks are better than publicly own banks in every way. Government owned banks still take risks and fail. So you point is?
Icelandic FSA regulates based on EU regulations. Can’t you see facts in face. Banks are adehering to Basel II for example something never happening in US for example.
>You still seem to blame the EU/Darling/Brown for the kreppa, well:
Strange that I very specific and you diffused and vagueor make strange assertions of what I say.
Kreppa comes as result of lying US banks hiding level 3 assets and like from toxic securites until early 2008 forced to reveal by changin accoutning standards US
15 September 2008 and Lehman brothers files for bankrupcy due to moving target of losses from its toxic mortgage securities total debts of $613 billion against total assets of $639 billion at time of bankcrpcy annoucnement sale of Merrill Lynch to Bank of America was announced also same day. Not good for banks trust each other as these come very fast and quick in quarter to quarter reporting.
Dow drops and banks stop lending to each other as banks stop to trust each other. Even and particularly big banks.
Along with many other banks bigger, Glitnir can’t refinance borrowing as before but is of course in world of big banks low down list of those to get refinancing. Same Landsbanki. Same Kaupthing but Central Bank agrees loan to it.
>Who chose to stay out of the eu, not to accept the euro and continued to beleive in the most overvalued currency in the world?
Being in EU would do nothing to save situation. Kaupthing subsidiary — full British bank not branch — is in UK where is 4th largest world reserve currency but it got no help. Just a kick into bankcupcy. Because… why?
Because of action of Brown Darling, that why. For politics and just plane because could reasons. Other foreign owned banks also similiar problem but Iceland ones only ones treated this way.
>Who failed to see the world economic crisis comming, forgetting to take precautions?
That would be all banking regulaters in world except couple.
Certainly US and UK, Germany, Spain, Ireland. (Although Ireland Spain have different problem it is local property market.)
Even Swiss for example with UBS who worst outside of US in toxic mortgage securitys.
Icleand banks in words of Portes:
“The Iceland problem was immediately vastly exaggerated.” He said the Icelandic banks had been unfairly targeted. “The world is a little unjust. They don’t hold any toxic papers. The assets they will have to sell are perfectly good assets. They have been prudently managed and haven’t been excessively dependent on the wholesale money markets compared to anyone else.”
Read bank balance sheets. It’s fact.
Many individuals warn of situatn including — you hate to hear it — Davið Oddsson.
>Who built an economic system entirely based on borrowing?
That is all banking systems in world.
>Who made sure that nearly all economic activity in Iceland was in the hands of a small elite?
While claim nepotism may be valid in small counrty, it is not fault that all people are not equal except under law. Some people are good at doing new things taking risks and so on. There is small elite in all country if you take this way expressing it in your terms.
All peple in Iceland get rising tide effect of situation but mainly in ability to borrow money at high rates to buy things.
It was pressure from EU on behalf its memberstates UK Holland as part of IMF loan that Iceland taxpayer has to pay now and not wait for assets of banks to be liquiidated over next 3 years to pay debts.
Do you not understand this?
>And IF you woud be right about poor Kaupthing being bullied into submission by the UK, then why is there still no lawsuit against the UK?
Again, facts Mr please.
Resolution Committee Kaupthing made application 7 Jan at the High Court UK for judicial review. Action backed by Icelandic government.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fisy, this is just a juridical REVIEW, basically a procedure to determine if it is possible at all to take legal action.
It is not surprising that the icelandic authorities have chosen this way.
Because this means they can still HIDE.
In a true procedure all authorities involved will have to testify and mr. Oddson and all the others are DEAD affraid to do so since it would expose all their shady dealings.
Such a risk free procedure as a review is just window dressing: diverting attention from the real problems.
I am absolutely certain that the icelandic elite will never dare to start a real procedure.
++++++++++++++++
>remember , this great system has been created by your very own, very incompetent government (keeping foreign competition out and forcing other countries to accept the disastrous activities of the icelandic banks).
You mean EU directives created it and forced the other countries.
+++++++++++++++++
I have said it before and I will say it again: Iceland took advantage of EU rules that it considered beneficial and ignored those that it did not like. Full implementation of EU directives never took place in Iceland and there is a simple reason for that. The clique around Oddson which has ruled Iceland wanted to control all economic activities in the country without having to deal with competition.
I have travelled quite a lot but apart from the former communist countries i NEVER came across a country with ony NATIONAL banks like Iceland.
You still seem to blame the EU/Darling/Brown for the kreppa, well:
Who privatized the icelandic banks ?
Who failed to oversee them properly ?
Who chose to stay out of the eu, not to accept the euro and continued to beleive in the most overvalued currency in the world?
Who failed to see the world economic crisis comming, forgetting to take precautions?
Who built an economic system entirely based on borrowing?
Who made sure that nearly all economic activity in Iceland was in the hands of a small elite?
It was NOT THE EU!
QWERTY, YOU ARE IGNORANT ( YOU IGNORE) OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH ALCOA.
THE LEFT-GREEN WAS AN ACTIVE OPOSITION TO ALUMINIUM FACTORIES AND STILL IS…
PLEASE GET YOURSELF INFORMED BEFORE TALKING BULLSHIT
@Fisy
I do not find your argument that Kaupthing was a healthy bank before the seizure of its UK subsidiary very convincing.
If rating agencies were unable to give correct ratings because of lying banks it means that Kaupthing lied too didn’t they?
Please have a look at the german text I posted too: like other Icelandic banks , Kaupthing was only based on borrowed money, a big difference to ‘normal’ banks.
You quite correctly state that the crisis got really serious when Lehman brothers went bankrupt. This was the actual start of the credit crunch.
In other posts you stated that incompetent banks should be allowed to go bankrupt and everybody should accept the ‘short term pain’.
I do not find that a very consistent argumentation.
You are still wondering why Darling took measures against Kaupthing, well have a look at the transcript of the now infamous phone conversation between Darling and Mathiesen (7 october):
[…] Darling: Do I understand that you guarantee the deposits of Icelandic depositors?
Mathiesen: Yes, we guarantee the deposits in the banks and branches here in Iceland.
Darling: But not the branches outside Iceland?
Mathiesen: No, not outside of what was already in the letter that we sent.
Darling: But is that not in breach of the EEA Treaty? Mathiesen: No, we don’t think so and think this is actually in line with what other countries have been doing over recent days. […]
This is why…even if you can disagree on the size of measures it is quite obvious that Mathiesen completely misjudged the situation and said exactly the wrong thing, in other words: incompetence.
@Fisy
I tried to post this reply at least 5 times but there seems to be some tehcnical problem.
Here is some more
http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/2686865/Premier_IJsland_praat_niet_met_Nederlanders.html
Haarde refuses to talk to a dutch delegation which came to iceland when the crisis started. He did talk to a UK delegation though. Haarde’s explanation:” I would only talk to them if the dutch prime minister had arrived in person. These are just some financial experts….”
And you think that you will get away with this?? Even a friendly people like the dutch will be pissed off after such behaviour.
Both Haarde and Mathiesen did exactly the wrong thing, taking it for granted that the dutch and british government would pay for an icelandic bankruptcy. After this arrogant behaviour it was only natural that both the UK and Holland took measures.
http://www.elsevier.nl/web/10206810/Nieuws/Economie/Icesave-IJsland-wil-dat-Nederlandse-staat-betaalt.htm
http://www.volkskrant.nl/economie/article1075720.ece/Premier_IJsland_Im_very_sorry_for_them
@Fisy
>Moreover your very own, very incompetent prime minister Haarde stated that he did not care sh*t about dutch icesave victims.
When was that? News to me. Source please.
++++++++++++++
http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/30/ECONOMIE/article/detail/36548/2008/10/09/Minister-Bos-garandeert-spaartegoeden-Icesave.dhtml
in dutch, crucial text
De afgelopen dagen deed de Nederlandse overheid er alles aan om duidelijkheid te krijgen over het spaargeld bij Icesave. Het contact verliep heel moeizaam. Eerder op donderdag zei de IJslandse premier Geir Haarde bovendien dat ons land, net als Groot-Brittannie eerder, de spaartegoeden zou moeten garanderen.
in english :
During the past days the dutch authorities tried everything in order to get clarity about savings with Icesave. Contacts (with the icelandic authorities) were extremely difficult. Moreover, earlier on thursday icelandic prime minister Haarde said that our country, just like the UK should guarantee (100 %of ) deposits.
Please use google translate if you do not trust me.
I understnad now from posts that you are Dutchman? I see you not reply here.
>Moreover your very own, very incompetent prime minister Haarde stated that he did not care sh*t about dutch icesave victims.
When was that? News to me. Source please.
>Please have a look at this, from Kaupthings very own website: already before the crisis ratings for Kauphing were very low: in Holland a bank with such ratings would rapidly go out of bussiness.
>http://www.kaupthing.com/Investors/Ratings
Ratings agencies had a big problem. Lying banks. Most if not all major banks in US.
After Lemans went in Septemebmer things went crazy not because of strengh of banks but because Lehman had lied so badly about financial balance sheet and level 3 assets, until forced to reveal during 2008 by accounting standards change in US in end of 2007 — that was resisted like Basel II implementatin by US bankers wanting to keep those huge end of year 2007 bonuses in pockets.
So after that ratings agency shook in boots and many ratings changed for all banks, good bands and the gulty banks.
Reason for problem now is banks not trust other banks because of this started in US. That is the problem. It is a banking trust issue that is being made into global financial crisis by idiot actions of politiicans mainly in US, UK but also other places copying these economic incompiteients.
Kaupthing was okay in assets and liabilities even if short term funding problem (and that is common to all banks during period after Lehman Collapse). For god sake even Swiss Bank the have had same troubles. (UBS of course worst being as US banks for toxic debt and speculation.)
It was specific action of Darling Brown to bankcrupt Kauthping subsidiary in UK that killed Kaupthing. It is fact. It is not open some kind of alternative explanation.
@moderator
I have repeatedly tried to post another comment here and for some reason it does not appear on the site. I do not think there is any offensiveness in it so please tell me what the problem is.
Knowless the great kabbalist…
@Fisy
Bail out after bailout is idiot economics and poor morality.
Iceland at least has its young population even if go abroad for while
++++++++++++
Please do not label a strategy followed by the whole world as ‘idiotic’ and do not come up with ‘morale’ . Anybody who still defends the icelandic elite should not be allowed to use this word ever , ever again.
You talk lightly about going abroad. In fact it is very likely that a considerable part of the icelandic population, especially the young, educated and enterprising, will leave.
I have relatives in Moldova, the poorest country in Europe. About one third of the population has left because of the bad economic and social situation.
results for the country are DEVASTATING.
You do not know what you are talking about.
@Fisy
+++++++++++++++++++
>In case of bankruptcy of a single bank, the money of depositors will not automatically be transferred to other banks, most of it will be lost, creating misery for innocent, ordinary people.
Where there is liquid funds it depends on the order in bankrupcy. Many banks buy parts as going concern at huge discount like has happened in US with no negative effect on depositors.
In such takeover it is shareholders and bond holders losing nearly all.
++++++++++++++++++
Very naive: ordinary account holders will lose out: they will always come last. Only a certain sum is guaranteed by a national safety fund , differing from country to country: in Iceland it is nealry zero.
Haven’t you learned your lesson yet? The elite has its debts forgiven while ordinary icelanders must pay the bill!
Terry said:
@ Knowless
>”What some commentators in the rest of the Europe really fear is
“are we becoming like Iceland?” :)
Your comment implies smug satisfaction – in that a deluded Europe will eventually have to capitulate in accordance with the wisdom of the Icelandic government.
—————————————————-
WTF are you drinking? my comments states to the rational mind that some commentators in Europe, after observing the rate of decline in their economies ask “are we going to become another Iceland?”
Terry wrote: You deride Icelanders saying –
>”Courage as expressed by the bumper sticker generation is to type “change the government” in capitals.”
————————————————–
Eh no Terry, I do not deride Icelanders.
Where the fck do you get that idea from?
I deride those here who think in bumper sticker rhetoric calling for Icelanders to be courageous and to change their government.
Terry wrote
<< Following the decision to nationalise the ailing Anglo Irish Bank, the Eire government understood a concept that the Icelandic government could not. The Finance Minister stated –
“The worst thing that can happen from Ireland’s point of view is that a bank can fail,” said the country’s finance minister, Brian Lenihan, in a radio interview”.
———————
Bank failure is not the worst thing that can happen.
The banks in Ireland have failed,lets get that over with.
The worst thing that can happen economically for a country is for the Banks to fail AND the country goes further into massive debt in futile attempts to absorb the bad debts and the country is much worse off. In my example the taxpayer is absorbing the bad debts of property deveopment speculators.
You may not be aware that ANGLO Irish Bank (Bob the builders bank is the property speculators banks. Most economic opinion in Ireland is aghast at it’s rescue.
No small coincidence that the governing party (aka the builders party),financed by the property speculators has agreed to the bailing out of the Builders bank.
The Finance Minister Lenihen is lost and is generally recognised to have no expertise in this area.
Terry wrote
“You suggest that it is appropriate that depositors should be trashed along with speculators. This is indeed what the Icelandic Banks did”
————————————————
I suggested no such thing.
You have weird powers of imaginary interpretation.
You haven’t even demonstrated the capacity to read what I write, not to mention some compulsion to attempt to surmise what might lie in between the lines.
@Fisy
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
>Allowing bankruptcy would cause even more economic chaos and hardship.
As said, best to take pain up front. Otherwise economies go sideways massive debts of taxpayers made, future generations in financial chains. As if not already bad enough with greying of Europe and baby boomers retirement and negative birth rates.
Bail out after bailout is idiot economics and poor morality.
Iceland at least has its young population even if go abroad for while. Pension funds funded. It has taken the pain up front.
Other countries in EU and elsewhere are doing the wrong thing in what has become a crisis. This speculative boom and toxic mortasge securties (which Iceland had nothing to do with) was not going to come down without pain.
Just EU counrties and other counrties want to take keep the pain to people coming and coming for a long time to come by idiot actions with future taxpayers money.
++++++++++++=
I think you are very naive if you believe that such a process would be short…it would mean a completely disrupted economy for years to come. Bankruptcy of just one bank will cause a chain reaction from which the whole economy would suffer, just do not underestimate this.
” future generations in financial chains”
So your govenrment just put its country in the chains of the IMF, wait and see what this will mean. I would not like to be an icelander the next few years….
During a world economic crisis there are 2 things a national government can do:
1-cut spendings and allow companies to go bankrupt
2-start spending and somehow keep the economy going
There is still a debate what is the right course of action but generally today the second approach is considered best. this is what most countries are doing. In the US the bankruptcy of Lehman brothers had such severe consequences that they are also following the second strategy.
iceland is following the first strategy not because it had a choice, but because it is forced to do so: iceland does not have any resources for the second strategy. the icelandic government failed to see the crisis comming and had not prepared for it. That is the difference between Iceland and for instance the EU countries: Our gov’s saw it comming and they have reserved money to deal with it. There is even a possibility to help out poorer EU countries who are being severely hit by the crisis.
Please do not call the second strategy which iceland cannot follow “stupid’ since this would mean that the whole outside world would be stupid while only Iceland would be smart. It is more likely the other way round.
In the 1930’s during the previous big crisis most countries followed the first strategy. In general results were terrible: mass bankruptcies, mass unemployment, social unrest, poverty, electoral success of fascists. In Holland this period is still a national trauma, and the same goes for other countries.
“Other countries in EU and elsewhere are doing the wrong thing in what has become a crisis. This speculative boom and toxic mortasge securties (which Iceland had nothing to do with) was not going to come down without pain.”
Icelandic bankers had a lot to do with this: they managed to be taken for a ride by their american colleagues in a terrible manner, acumulating LOTS of toxic debts.
Fisy, I have said it before and I will say it again: your icelandic elite created a completely corrupt and rotten system based on deceit, camouflage and toxic debt. It was a card house that came tumbling down when the worldwide crisis started.
PS it would not be a bad idea to start posting under a different name since many people keep confusing you with Fishy, who has been around on this forum much longer than you.
@Fisy
You are claiming that kaupthing basically was still healthy last oct and would be able to takeover ‘certain obligations’ from Glitnir and LB.
Please have a look at this, from Kaupthings very own website: already before the crisis ratings for Kauphing were very low: in Holland a bank with such ratings would rapidly go out of bussiness.
http://www.kaupthing.com/Investors/Ratings
Have a look at this text too from the german wiki on Kaupthing:
Stärker als über direkte Kundeneinlagen refinanzierte sich die Kaupthing Bank jedoch hauptsächlich über die Ausgabe von Anleihen an den internationalen Finanzmärkten sowie durch Aufnahme von Darlehen im Interbankenmarkt. So unterzeichnete die Kaupthing Bank zuletzt im Juni 2008 einen Darlehensvertrag mit RZB, Bank of America, BayernLB und Lloyds TSB über ein Darlehen von 275 Millionen Euro.[7] Laut Halbjahresbericht 2008 hatte die Kaupthing Bank per Mitte 2008 ausstehende Kredite im Umfang von insgesamt 2.883 Milliarden Kronen, wovon 1.898 Milliarden Kronen in Form von Anleihen, sowie Kundeneinlagen in der Höhe von 1.848 Milliarden Kronen.[8]
Basically kauthing was built completely on HUGE debts …
It is just a fairy tale that Kaupthing was a healthy company…
Dont you see it people?
Its amazeing the protests start gowing and the krona starts magically and stedelly for exactle the same period to strenghten, and the protests mild down, 300 protesters last night, I told you they dont have it in them.
Dude, and who is going to rule after the elections? Left-green clones who sold Iceland to Alcoa? Who?
POLITICIANS IN THIS COUNTRY HAD TO RECOGNIZE THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE NEW ELECTIONS AND SOON.
PEOPLE HAD TO ARRIVE TO THIS POINT, PEOPLE HAD TO BREAK THE WINDOWS OF THE PARLIAMENT, PEOPLE HAD TO CONFRONT THE BRUTALITY OF POLICE,THE NEXT STEP WAS ONLY TAKING THE GOVERN BY FORCE… AND WHEN THE POLITICIANS HAVE SEEN ALL THIS THEY HAD NO OTHER OPTION THAN START LISTENING!!!
ARRIBA ISLANDIA VIVA LA REVOLUCIÓN
I told you WHERE are the protesters today?
>Moreover your very own, very incompetent prime minister Haarde stated that he did not care sh*t about dutch icesave victims.
When was that? News to me. Source please.
>In case of bankruptcy of a single bank, the money of depositors will not automatically be transferred to other banks, most of it will be lost, creating misery for innocent, ordinary people.
Where there is liquid funds it depends on the order in bankrupcy. Many banks buy parts as going concern at huge discount like has happened in US with no negative effect on depositors.
In such takeover it is shareholders and bond holders losing nearly all.
>In the EU banks are not allowed to turn into monsters, many times bigger than their own national economy.?
Facts again. UK is only slightly better off than Iceland in this regard of massive banks hanging over top of GDP.And only slightly. UK banks are monsters loming over economy of UK.
Last I heard UK is still in EU.
Spain banks have problems, German banks, Irish of course.
>Allowing bankruptcy would cause even more economic chaos and hardship.
As said, best to take pain up front. Otherwise economies go sideways massive debts of taxpayers made, future generations in financial chains. As if not already bad enough with greying of Europe and baby boomers retirement and negative birth rates.
Bail out after bailout is idiot economics and poor morality.
Iceland at least has its young population even if go abroad for while. Pension funds funded. It has taken the pain up front.
Other countries in EU and elsewhere are doing the wrong thing in what has become a crisis. This speculative boom and toxic mortasge securties (which Iceland had nothing to do with) was not going to come down without pain.
Just EU counrties and other counrties want to take keep the pain to people coming and coming for a long time to come by idiot actions with future taxpayers money.
>Now let us return to your thesis that incompetent banks should go bankrupt:OK, the icelandic government would allow all 3 banks to go bankrupt…then what? Since Iceland did not fully implement EU legislation no foreign banks with a healthy financial situation were present in Iceland.
What do you mean? Since Acts of 2002 incrporated EU directives it’s been open to EEA memberstate to operate here. If market was perceived here then foreign competitors welcome to compete.
>So nearly every icelander depends for all his/her financial dealings on one of these banks:
Yes, most. Although the local savings and loans also have presence and untouched mainly.
>remember , this great system has been created by your very own, very incompetent government (keeping foreign competition out and forcing other countries to accept the disastrous activities of the icelandic banks).
You mean EU directives created it and forced the other countries.
?>I suppose you will have some savings and some income…that would be lost …basically the whole society in Iceland would collapse…would that help anyone ?
Very nasty situation no doubt. No one benefit from such a thing. So why then did Brown Darling do what they did?
Icelandic government pulled Landsbanki and Glitnir into bankrupcy on 7 October as no choice — pension funds would not put up money to lend them. Wholesale bank to bank lending markets closed. So bankrupcy.
Complication as you say of course is that Icelandic people rely on the 2 banks enourmously (as Landsbanki do much of connection SWIFT etc. and other things)
Aim was to have Kauthphing continue and then take over certain obligations. Clear intend of government with intended €500m loan from Central Bank.
So looking to countries with more banks around the world why do you think that all the incompitent banks should be bailed out by taxpayers? Why is that good for anyone?
>And IF you woud be right about poor Kaupthing being bullied into submission by the UK, then why is there still no lawsuit against the UK?
Again, facts Mr please.
Resolution Committee Kaupthing made application 7 Jan at the High Court UK for judicial review. Action backed by Icelandic government.
>All 3 icelandic banks were practically bankrupt and had to be nationalized(because of incompetence from its managers, the icelandic national bank and the icelandic government). Please stop blaming the UK.
>So please stop painting a picture of the good and honest icelanders who cared so much about their reputation and the savings of foreigners, only to be prevented from this by the evil bullying britons.
I blame not the UK. It’s Brown Darling who are to blame — for their actions. This was a crisis and instead of coperating it was begger thy neighbour policy of Brown Darling for political ends.
British people are already beginning to suffer from their actions too. Worst thing is unemployemnt now over there and 45% or more of people being laid off there in last 3 month are under 25 years age.
I think you deliberatly miss my points.
I said that Ireland has more than just 1 or 3 banks.
Ireland with its 40+ banks, of them there are some compitent ones did not make crazy property loans and waiting to take over assets and liabilities of incompitent.
>Kaupthing was in an equally bad situation as Glitnir and Landsbanki
Kaupthing was not in as bad situation as the other two. It’s fixed term deposit and loans were not due to much later and it was getting very liquid for a long time preparing for troubles. Please you also study the facts before posting this assumptions. I sent before in another post link to balance sheets.
Look for example at an example of Glitnir assets:
http://icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=16567&ew_0_a_id=318683
(Norweigan government likes to create favourable deals for their businesses.)
Hello from Latvia! At the Latvia people protest to the govrlament money political – foto/ video reoport- http://www.autonews.lv/news/6/2221
So, http://iceland-calling.this.is guy in the ‘MOVEMENT FOR A NEW REPUBLIC IN ICELAND’ statement
>We are working hard to press for early elections and are convinced that they
will result in a new government followed by a new professional governance structure.
Would help case by layout of that new “professional governance structure” in detail show what is on their mind other than vage woolly ideas and labeling people as criminials and other lose talk without getting into details.
What do they think comes next? Icelandic Republic end?
Memberstate of EU superstate with direct rule from Brussells?
Better would be more local control more local elections and power. Less at center. Stick with EEA but make more trade deals outside and lets see what natural resouces of Oil and Gas exploitation within 5 years will do. If its out there it can be got out with new technilogy within 2 years+.
But where is this ideas from these new force people. Long on rant, long on creating einvonement of “direct action” where thuggery is if not encouraged is result.Short on what should come next and basic civilness.
500 or so signatures on it so far.
Iceland is already a civil society. Just decentralized remove power from all politicans hands of any stripe. Dont let them have so much centrally. Thats problem, not current ones in seats.
>If a politician in the U.K as been abusing his expenses, he is maybe forced to resign.?
>In Iceland a well known politician embezzled government funds (to build his summer house)?
>YES, he went to prison, but after serving his time ,he continues to still be a politician.
In UK under current political class its the same, just there is no going to prison part.
Peter Mandelson resigned twice (both due to corruption / conflict interest) and went off straigh to work for the EU Commision but now is back as a UK Labour minister as of 3rd October. He’s made Business Secretary in cabinet.
(Of course corrupt and failed national politcans go to work for the EU Commisson. But such us how bad Brown situation that Peter M bought back.)
Situation of corrupt EU level politicans and bureaucrats is legend.
I HEARD THAT ICELANDERS ARE BUILDING A GUILLOTINE TO BE SET IN FRONT OF THE ALTHINGI TO SERVE THE HEADS OF THE GOVERN AS THEY ARE TAKEN ONE BY ONE BY FORCE OUT OF THE PARLIAMENT.
MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON THEM BECAUSE THE THOUSANDS OF VERY ANGRY ICELANDERS WONT.
ICELANDERS ARE VERY PACIFIC PEOPLE, UNTIL YOU MAKE THEM ANGRY… THEN NOTHING CAN STOP THEM…
DO YOU THINK THAT THOUSANDS OF MEN THAT HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS, HOUSES AND EVERYTHING AND SEE THE FUTURE OF THEIR CHILDREN TOTALLY DESTROYED, DO REALLY CARE ABOUT BEING ARRESTED OR EVEN END IN JAIL?? HAHAHAAHAHA ;D
MASSIVE ARRESTS??? WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO PUT THEM… DON´T YOU SEE THAT PROTESTERS, THE WHOLE NATION, HAVE REALIZED THAT THEY ARE STRONGER THAN THAN ANY POLICE THEY PUT… HOW MANY POLICEMEN ARE IN REYKJAVÍK? 200? AND HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL TRY TO GET THE PARLIAMENT BY FORCE IN THE FOLLOWING DAYS?? 5000, 10.000? 50.000? ….
@ Fisy
You state –
>”It is wrong think to do. If it was so good why is pound suffering so much in world markets. As will UK taxpayers for decades to come. Pain better taken short term than amplifying situation by idiot bailouts.”
>”Then Lenihan is like most politicans an economci fool. Ireland has more than just 1 or 3 banks. One fails and the deposit money goes to other stronger banks or savings nad loans instead. Banks that should fail should be put into bankcrupcy.”
>“Depositers sometimes need to loose.”
>”Depositers seek best interest rates. Higher rates means higher risks. People are not stupid it’s obvious that is how it is.”
>”Then we had Brown Darling taking IceSave moneies and forcing Kaupthing into bankrucy.”
Clearly, yourself Knowless, and perhaps others, would, perhaps agree with the recent analysis provided by Grimsson during a BBC interview.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7836115.stm
The comment by the Ireland Finance Minister encapsulates standards (shared by the UK and others) – you so readily disregard –
>“If a bank fails, the damage to the country, the reputational damage to the country, in trashing deposits and refusing to honour obligations, would be enormous,” he added.”
I do hope your view is not typical of all Icelanders – that would be sad.
> Pain better taken short term than amplifying situation by idiot bailouts.
Not always. Iceland’s economy might look very different if Lehman had been bailed out, although apparently a correction was inevitable.
http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/01/a-death-foretold.html
Deposit guarantees came into place to help prevent runs on banks. The Icelandic guarantee was seen as being very shaky after Icesave (rightly so, it transpired), so I’m not convinved that KE could avoid a run.
@Fisy
You accuse others of ignorance yet your own reasoning makes little sense.
Here you are claiming that incompetent banks should be allowed to go bankrupt.
Well, if that is the case , how about Iceland, I mean, if there is ONE country in this world with incompetent banks , it is Iceland.
All 3 icelandic banks were practically bankrupt and had to be nationalized(because of incompetence from its managers, the icelandic national bank and the icelandic government). Please stop blaming the UK.
Kaupthing was in an equally bad situation as Glitnir and Landsbanki…and if they would totally depend on the money in their UK affilliate, as you suggest, that would be a sign of incompetence too.
I would only like to refer to the transcript of the conversation between mr. Darling and your very own, very incompetent mr. Mathiesen, in which Mathiesen made the impression that Iceland would not meet its legal obligations and did not care at all about foreign customers of icelandic banks.
After this the UK was perfectly right to use legislation to stop the fraud.
And IF you woud be right about poor Kaupthing being bullied into submission by the UK, then why is there still no lawsuit against the UK?
Moreover your very own, very incompetent prime minister Haarde stated that he did not care sh*t about dutch icesave victims. He had to swallow these words when Holland , together with the UK, blocked the IMF loan.
So please stop painting a picture of the good and honest icelanders who cared so much about their reputation and the savings of foreigners, only to be prevented from this by the evil bullying britons. Your government tried to lie and steal, just like they have done from the icelandic people…only against bigger countries they did not get away with it.
Now let us return to your thesis that incompetent banks should go bankrupt:OK, the icelandic government would allow all 3 banks to go bankrupt…then what? Since Iceland did not fully implement EU legislation no foreign banks with a healthy financial situation were present in Iceland. So nearly every icelander depends for all his/her financial dealings on one of these banks: remember , this great system has been created by your very own, very incompetent government (keeping foreign competition out and forcing other countries to accept the disastrous activities of the icelandic banks).
I suppose you will have some savings and some income…that would be lost …basically the whole society in Iceland would collapse…would that help anyone ?
In case of bankruptcy of a single bank, the money of depositors will not automatically be transferred to other banks, most of it will be lost, creating misery for innocent, ordinary people. Moreover, there will be a chain reaction, with other banks failing too..this happened with Lehman brothers.
The Eire authorities are just trying to keep the banking system going , just like the icelandic gov did in october. Eire and the rest of the EU have bigger financial reserves so they are in a positon to do so. In the EU banks are not allowed to turn into monsters, many times bigger than their own national economy.
Allowing bankruptcy would cause even more economic chaos and hardship.
>>”UK gov announce another bailout, the last one did not work. This time the state decides to buy up £50bn worth of Bank Corporate debt”
>The first bailout prevented banks from failing. The second is to enable them to fulfil their function of lending. It is given with stringent conditions.
It is wrong think to do. If it was so good why is pound suffering so much in world markets. As will UK taxpayers for decades to come. Pain better taken short term than amplifying situation by idiot bailouts.
>“The worst thing that can happen from Ireland’s point of view is that a bank can fail,” said the country’s finance minister, Brian Lenihan, in a radio interview.
Then Lenihan is like most politicans an economci fool. Ireland has more than just 1 or 3 banks. One fails and the deposit money goes to other stronger banks or savings nad loans instead. Banks that should fail should be put into bankcrupcy.
Propping up incompitent banks is just attacking all the other compitent banks as as soon as govermnet backs a incompitent bank with taxpayer monies all money flows out of other banks into theincompitent bank that now has government backing.
If bank made too many risky bad loans with fraud then prosecute. Make an example and banks in future won’t take risks with depositers monies in future.
>However, depositors are those who place funds with a bank – in return for moderate returns and a guarantee of security.
>You suggest that it is appropriate that depositors should be trashed along with speculators. This is indeed what the Icelandic Banks did.
Depositers sometimes need to loose as without it we get the situation as we see now in the world were banks make bad decisions and governments bail them out again and gain and future generations pay for it.
Depositers seek best interest rates. Higher rates means higher risks. People are not stupid it’s obvious that is how it is.
Amazes me the lack of study on what happened to Icelandic banks. No it was that the 2 banks were unable to get refinancing same as banks like Royal Bank Scotland in UK at the time. After Lehmans went done banks stopped lending to each other.
Two banks who could not refinance were overtaken – Glitnir and Landsbanki, and then, survival plan was made to make huge bank of Kaupthing from other banks.
Then we had Brown Darling taking IceSave moneies and forcing Kaupthing into bankrucy.
Icelandic governemtn Intention was never to cut off foreigners from money. After actions of Brown Darling, against Kaupthing situation of original intent became shortterm impossible. Then after Kaupthing kicked into bankrucpy for sure then many depositors cannot get monies but hardly suprising.
Remember when a bank goes, it has under modern standards such as Basel II not much cash. It has lots of loans out. No way you can give all depositors monies at same time. No bank can do that.
If Kaupthing had lived there was a chance that a way to survice bank run could be made. But after that well you see what happend.
@ Knowless
>”What some commentators in the rest of the Europe really fear is
“are we becoming like Iceland?” :)
Your comment implies smug satisfaction – in that a deluded Europe will eventually have to capitulate in accordance with the wisdom of the Icelandic government.
>”UK gov announce another bailout, the last one did not work. This time the state decides to buy up £50bn worth of Bank Corporate debt”
The first bailout prevented banks from failing. The second is to enable them to fulfil their function of lending. It is given with stringent conditions.
You also state-
>”Irish gov announce the nationalisation of Anglo Irish Bank, the property speculators bank,
In other words, the tax payer takes on a €30bn debt, a vapourized asset loaned out to propery speculators for them to purchase overpriced land for property development.”
The Eire government along with the rest of Europe, understand the importance of credibility, honour and obligation – to those using their banking services.
Following the decision to nationalise the ailing Anglo Irish Bank, the Eire government understood a concept that the Icelandic government could not. The Finance Minister stated –
“The worst thing that can happen from Ireland’s point of view is that a bank can fail,” said the country’s finance minister, Brian Lenihan, in a radio interview.
“If a bank fails, the damage to the country, the reputational damage to the country, in trashing deposits and refusing to honour obligations, would be enormous,” he added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7832763.stm
You deride Icelanders saying –
>”Courage as expressed by the bumper sticker generation is to type “change the government” in capitals.”
I have found Icelanders to be open minded – despite the rhetoric fed to them by government. Civil confict is a new experience – in their own way they will, resolve grievances with government.
You state-
>“and it looks increasingly so for quite a few countries as they persist in digging bigger holes for themselves to bail out speculators/ absorb massive debts.”
Speculators are those who buy shares – and those who bought shares in banks have paid a heavy price, and that is the nature of speculation. However, depositors are those who place funds with a bank – in return for moderate returns and a guarantee of security.
You suggest that it is appropriate that depositors should be trashed along with speculators. This is indeed what the Icelandic Banks did.
If you feel that this action was appropriate – then I’m sure Haarde, Grimsson, and Oddson would agree.
And I repeat.
The situation here is that icelanders have not the courage to do absolutely a thing. its like the joke where a guy drops the soap in the shower and asks another to pick it up. the goberment droped the soap, the people know what will happend when they bent over to pick it up stil they WILL pick it up!! Mark my words they WILL PICK IT UP!!!
Says the guy in the ‘MOVEMENT FOR A NEW REPUBLIC IN ICELAND’ statement
>We are working hard to press for early elections and are convinced that they
will result in a new government followed by a new professional governance structure.
Would help case by layout of that new “professional governance structure” in detail show what is on their mind other than vage woolly ideas and labeling people as criminials and other lose talk without getting into details.
That site is long on retoric and short on solutions.Petition comments from Icelanders is worth reading though.
No way they will get same number of signatures as Indefence.is for example as this is the same kind of miinds as behind savingiceland.
>THE PEOPLE OF ICELAND IS GOING TO TAKE THE PARLIAMENT BY FORCE VERY VERY SOON, YOU CAN ALL BE SURE OF THAT…
As I say before Gus, then that 20-30 people will get arrested.
This is getting ridiculus.
http://mbl.is/mm/frettir/innlent/2009/01/20/allt_a_sudupunkti_vid_althingi/
Around 800 to 1000 left protesting, now most the young. Rest are off getting on with lives.
Of that there is clearly minority of thugs who is going to get hit with pepper spray and maybe arrested as they do thuggish actions.
If that 20-30 incite the others to act as a mob, then everyone is going to get into trouble and mass arrest. Let’s hope not too many have been drinking.
Mob violense is very scary thing. No wonder policemen are in riot gear.
THE PEOPLE OF ICELAND IS GOING TO TAKE THE PARLIAMENT BY FORCE VERY VERY SOON, YOU CAN ALL BE SURE OF THAT…
POLITICIANS IN POWER AT THE GOVERN WILL HAVE TO RUSH TO ABANDON THE COUNTRY BEFORE THE POPULAR MASS TAKE ACCOUNT ON THEM FOR THE CRIMES THEY HAVE DONE AGAINST THIS NATION.
THE MAFIA SHOULD ALL BE PUT IN JAIL AND JUDGE BY INTERNATIONAL COURTS. AND THEY SHOULD HAVE CONFISCATED ALL THEIR PROPERTIES.
Courage as expressed by the bumper sticker generation is to type “change the government” in capitals.
Current expensive policies of recovery, Europe wide, are akin to flogging a dead horse. That dead horse is the failed economic model.
UK gov announce another bailout, the last one did not work. This time the state decides to buy up £50bn worth of Bank Corporate debt.
Irish gov announce the nationalisation of Anglo Irish Bank, the property speculators bank,
In other words, the tax payer takes on a €30bn debt, a vapourized asset loaned out to propery speculators for them to purchase overpriced land for property development.
What some commentators in the rest of the Europe really fear is
“are we becoming like Iceland?” :)
The worst nightmare of those commentators is, “are we another Iceland?”
and it looks increasingly so for quite a few countries as they persist in digging bigger holes for themselves to bail out speculators/ absorb massive debts.
Well Hans unfortunatly not only for you… I believe for many more!
I don’t agree with violence, however something needs to be done!
First I believed the citizens of Iceland were in shock… (nationalization of the 3 major banks, ISK in free fall, etc, etc…) but after such long time… it’s already something else.
I’m afraid people, in every country, only complain when they don’t have the rigth… when a righteous cause is at stake… people do nothing… it’s like a social disease.
Good luck for all… specially to those who lost their jobs.
I hope this is a good thing for Iceland. Icelanders have been through a lot in the past few months, they deserve things to change for the better, fast.
when there are no persons who can lead this country here,than look abroad!This is the worse appoligize i have ever heard!Just what was allready said in the comments,the people here don`t have courage for doing anything.The worst is that people in the goverment don`t wanna change because they are afraid to loose power.
IT IS TIME TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY FOR ME!
Icelanders should take the members of its current government and its Madoffs, these parasites on the nation, for a drive to Öxará, Þingvellir…
I would fully understand a ‘velvet revolution’ in iceland as the present government is linked in an incestuous manner to the cowboys who are responsible for a terrible crisis for which the honest and hard working icelanders (a majority of the population) are supposed to pay.
But keep in mind that even the velvet revolution did not happen just by itself.
It is also not necessary to create big chaos…a REAL general strike would do the thing. In Czechoslovakia this was the case too…
ARRIBA ISLANDIA !
THERE IS PLENTY OF PREPARED AND EDUCATED PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND GOVERN. NEW YOUNG PEOPLE WITH FRESH IDEAS. NOT THE OLD BIGOTS WE HAVE AT THE GOVERMENT NOW.
IT IS OUR GENERATION THE GENERATION WHO HAS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND FIGHT FOR POWER AND PUT THE THINGS IN THE RIGHT PLACE.
WE NEED TO DO IT FOR OUR COUNTRY AND FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR CHILDREN.
Lest see if the barking dogs actually bites!!
Revolution with destruction and no respect for the government and banksters, no mercy !! they should be hunted down all the way to their homes, then they will feel fear and step down and realise that they work for the people and are no longer untouchable. QUE VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!
[…] Movimiento por una Nueva República pide la Revolución en Islandiawww.icenews.is/index.php/2009/01/19/upheaval-calls-for-fleec… por IkkiFenix hace pocos segundos […]
Sorry I should have said “WE Will”
the thing here is that icelanders have not the courage to do absolutely a thing. its like the joke where a guy drops the soap in the shower and asks another to pick it up. the goberment droped the soap, the people know what will happend when they bent over to pick it up stil they WILL pick it up!! Mark my words they WILL PICK IT UP!!!
If a politician in the U.K as been abusing his expenses, he is maybe forced to resign.
In Iceland a well known politician embezzled government funds (to build his summer house)
YES, he went to prison, but after serving his time ,he continues to still be a politician.
The trouble is in Iceland there is only 300000 people to select our leaders from.
This is the population of a town in the U.K
In the U.S.A with a population of over 300 million , they was ruled for the last 8 years by George W Bush.
The point i am making is that if we fire the current government, then select a new government from the remaining politicians will they do a better job?
I think we simply don’t have enough qualified new leaders/politicians to rescue us.
Sad but true.
A new order? I like it!