The negotiation committee representing the Icelandic government on the Icesave issue met yesterday and today with representatives of the UK and Dutch governments in Reykjavík for discussions.
The purpose of the meetings was primarily to exchange information and to prepare further talks later this year. This is the first time the parties meet since the talks were adjourned on the 5th of March 2010.
Heading the Icelandic negotiation committee is US attorney Lee C. Buchheit. Other members of the committee are the Permanent Secretaries of the Ministries of Finance and Foreign Affairs, Guðmundur Árnason og Einar Gunnarsson respectively, Icelandic attorneys Jóhannes Karl Sveinsson and Lárus Blöndal, the latter representing all the parliamentary opposition parties.
They are advised by Donald J. Johnston, former Secretary-General of the OECD, as well as experts from the corporate advisory firm Hawkpoint and the international law office Ashurst.
(press release)
What have any of those actions got to do with the UK? KSFIOM is not a UK bank and wasn’t regulated by the UK as Isle of Man is not part of the UK or the EU. The Uk treasury doesn’t have any control over KSFIoM.
KSF made a business decision to transfer it funds, a decision made my its management – as you would expect
“October 2008 — October 8, without warning or having given any notice ”
The list of criminal, deceitful actions and broken promises taken by the bank were documented in the legal action, that KSF lost, demonstrating they had many months of warnings and given second, third chances to redeem themselves.
You have ignored all that evidence, presented in court, so that you can perpetrate your little fantasy world that Kaputhings demise wasn’t the fault of the criminals who managed it.
Oh, and thanks for yet another link to a PDF thats says nothing to substantiate your claims. Does anyone in Iceland believe your spiel?
So for benefit of Peter and others might have interest the time line of this GBP 550 million money sent in different blocks over time to Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander in London that was taken advantage of by UK Treasury in case of KSF IOM is this :
* April 2008 — Isle of Man’s regulator the Financial Supervision Commission had ‘requested and approved’ transfer of £ 185 odd million from Kaupthing in Reykjavik to Kaupthing Singer Friedlander in UK.
* June 2008 — the Isle of Man FSC did tell KSF Isle of Man to remove all remaining exposure to parent bank of £ 175 million to KSF in the UK.
* October 2008 — October 8, without warning or having given any notice of their intentions to the Isle of Man FSC or the Isle of Man bank+, the UK Treasury and the UK FSA did order the transfer of the majority of KSF in UK retail deposits to ING Direct and did force KSF UK into administration.
+Unlike these UK regulators did in case of they actions taken over Bradford and Bingley.
A typical Peter London post intended to muddy the waters.
What it says on p. 52 of the ‘ Kaupthing Bank hf Creditors’ Report June 2010′ that you did link to is :
” The assets and liabilities of KSF IoM are not part of the estate and the ResCom is not responsible for the administration. ”
How ever readers will note that at top of p. 52 is does say the same thing about Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander :
” The assets and liabilities of KSF are not part of the estate and the ResCom is not responsible for the administration. ”
That is because they have separate teams of liquidators.
It means nothing about the money that Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander ( does owe to KSF IOM because Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander was a UK bank ( that was owned as a subsidiary of Kaupthing and is a separate entity. )
For that you have to look here for Ernst & Young ( the adminstrator )’s report :
http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/Files/CustomerCreditorInformation/Administrators%20Progress%20Report%20April%202010.pdf ( see p. 12 )
( and also see the earlier reports from them . )
As usual when given chance to make your point with facts you instead try to misdirect and mislead.
As per usual Fisy, you call me a liar with a link to that doesn’t proven anything. What its does say is that the Kaputhing resolution committee has nothing to do with KSF and that the UK treasury’s actions were deemed perfectly legitimate and correct by the courts.
page 52 –
http://www.kaupthing.com/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=20977
If you want confirmation that you are talking crap again.
>There is no cash in KSF London, its gone; lent out, stolen whatever.
Go and read the accounts given by resolution committte they tell different story.
http://www.kaupthing.com/?pageid=4131
( As usual facts are not with you there Peter London. )
Regarding KSF IOM this fact is clear :
” Some £557 million – £402 million net ”
Err, no there is nothing fact about it. Icelandic owned banks were not in the habit of transferring large sums of cash in subsidiaries and leaving it there. Banks do no leave large sums in accounts, Icelandic or any other type. There is no cash in KSF London, its gone; lent out, stolen whatever.
Problem is that this UK law has been highly distotred by this special act under the Northern Rock Act that was used by Darling against Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander.
How so? The Northern Rock Act is the UK law for precisely this situation.
“>I would assume that they don’t care (rightly so) whether KSFIOM should or should not have deposited that money with KSFUK. The fact is that they did, and now they’re just another creditor that will, in all likelyhood, not get 100% of that deposit back. ”
Thank you for explaining more what you did mean. I under stand what you are saying now.
Regarding KSF IOM this fact is clear :
” Some £557 million – £402 million net – was trapped when the Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander bank in London was placed into administration, a move that prompted the collapse of KSF (IoM) in October last year, leaving 10,000 customers owed at least £840 million. ”
But.. what is under dispute is if UK FSA should have warned the FSA of the Isle of Man and stop them sending across the GBP 550+ millions to KSF in UK.
Isle of Man regulator has been very clear that they think way this was handled by UK FSA was highly irregular because they did not treat this same as for example situation with Bradford and Bingley.
https://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/06/22/haarde-in-dublin-ireland-worse-than-iceland/#comment-82891
https://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/12/icesave-time-running-out-for-icelandic-government/#comment-96167
As to actions of Ernst & Young adminstrators of KSF in UK — clearly they are trying they best for all creditor that include now KSF IOM under UK law.
Problem is that this UK law has been highly distotred by this special act under the Northern Rock Act that was used by Darling against Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander.
>I think it is hard to interpret this clause as NOT being explitly there to stop the monies being paid backto KSF IOM without HM Treasury permission..
So? Even if it was (and, as I’ve said, the whole of Kaupthing appears to have been run in an irregular manner, so it may have been included for reasons other than IoM) the ability to block is not the same as actually blocking. If the administrators wanted to send that money to KSFIOM they could try and then see if the Treasury blocks them.
Not that they would. To answer your second question, the administrators are not going to take money out of the pot to give to KSFIOM in preference to other creditors. I would assume that they don’t care (rightly so) whether KSFIOM should or should not have deposited that money with KSFUK. The fact is that they did, and now they’re just another creditor that will, in all likelyhood, not get 100% of that deposit back. Any attempt by the UK government to make the administrators do that would be putting the other creditors of KSFUK, many of whom may well be just as karmically entitled to 100% return of their money, at a disadvantage.
” >I don’t know enough about it to understand how it all fits together Fisy. But a quick look at section 27 seems to indicate that payments are fine, just so long as they’re not to related parties. ”
I think it is hard to interpret this clause as NOT being explitly there to stop the monies being paid backto KSF IOM without HM Treasury permission..
” >And a requirement for authorisation for payments is entirely different from requiring administrators to make payments that they do not believe are in the interest of their creditors. ”
I lost you there — can you give me examples of what you mean ?
” Some £557 million – £402 million net – was trapped when the Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander bank in London was placed into administration, a move that prompted the collapse of KSF (IoM) in October last year, leaving 10,000 customers owed at least £840 million. ”
Just because you can get someone to agree with you doesn’t make it true.
As the court case pointed out (and Bromley rightly reminded us that decided to complexly ignore it) there was no money in KSF London, under the control of the Administrator or anyone else.
Everything you claim has been comprehensibly disproved in court, but, hey, Gummi agree with you so you must be telling the truth.
have you seen an explaantion why section 27 of Statutory Instrument 2008/2674 means no assets may be repaid to creditors by the UK Joint Administrators without the explicit permission of HM Treasury.
I don’t know enough about it to understand how it all fits together Fisy. But a quick look at section 27 seems to indicate that payments are fine, just so long as they’re not to related parties.
“In this article, “related party” means any member of the same group as Kaupthing that is not a subsidiary undertaking of Kaupthing.”
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/uksi_20082674_en_4#pt5-l1g27
Frankly, given the tangled web of dodgy dealings, that seems fair to me. And a requirement for authorisation for payments is entirely different from requiring administrators to make payments that they do not believe are in the interest of their creditors.
Peter London/ Poland wrote :
>you repeatedly call me a liar, while lying your heart out and distorting the truth.
Really. As usual within a post or two you are shown to be posting untruths.
Peter wrote :
>As KSFIoM depositors now know, there is no cash in KSF London ‘under treasury control.
Clearly you are very wrong on that one Peter.
*without the explicit permission of HM Treasury
I am referring here to Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander administration.
Brumley, as you are taking devils advoacate position, have you seen an explaantion why section 27 of Statutory Instrument 2008/2674 means no assets may be repaid to creditors by the UK Joint Administrators without the explicit permission of HM Treasury.
This is political interference in a bancrupcy proceeding of the highest order.. Which if I do remember was what you were saying was a bad thing in the case of this proceedings.
Obviously the Landsbanki London branch EUR 1.1 billion monies sitting there in the bank of England without interest to creditors is indefensible — or am I wrong that it is going to go to a place that will benefit creditors and not just the UK government budget.
Despite this Icelandic tax payer are still expected to be on the hook for the London branch IceSave money to UK govenrment — they already have this huge chunk of money and incomes coming in.
No doubt it continues to grow as UK based debtor company do service and pay back they loans they took from Landsbanki.
>Feel free to make a case that it should be transferred.
My point is that despite the GBP 550 millions sitting in Singer and Friedlander, total distributions from bankrupcy of KSM IOM have been 51.1% to date.
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/New-hope-for-Kaupthing-Singer.5203653.jp
” Some £557 million – £402 million net – was trapped when the Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander bank in London was placed into administration, a move that prompted the collapse of KSF (IoM) in October last year, leaving 10,000 customers owed at least £840 million. ”
It was transferred because that was the recommendation from the UK FSA to the IOM Financial Services Authority so it would be ” safe “. Despite that HM Treausury told UK FSA who knew it was going to take Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander and so keep this IOM bank money
— as Darling did falsely call it it from that ” tax haven sitting in the Irish Sea ”
despite knowing that most of the people that did put it was expat UK pensioners and others who could not easily open bank account in UK due to UK gold plated EU money laundering regulations for account opening.
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/politics/Watch-Alistair-Darling39s-Isle-of.4673338.jp
“We being most of other posters here on IceNEws that do try our best to post facts. Such as Bjarni max, Mike UK Nordic Analyst, Brumley, Niels and the others that I do not remember now but just excuse me no insults intended.”
Of course I’ll take offence – you repeatedly call me a liar, while lying your heart out and distorting the truth.
As has been repeatedly pointed out to you Fisy, once a company ceases to function then the administrators/receivers have to manage it in the interest of the creditors.
It’s simply not possible for the UK government to jump in and insist that £550m is transferred from the UK company to the IOM one.
Feel free to make a case that it should be transferred.
Peter London, unless you know something we dont both this money :
>GBP 550 millions sitting in Singer and Friedlander under control of UK Treasury
and the Landsbanki London branch moneys there — the EUR 1.1 billion monies sitting there in the bank of England not earning any of creditors interest :
http://icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=16567&ew_0_a_id=357653
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7673248.stm
Judging by all of you previous posts here you dont know anything we dont.
We being most of other posters here on IceNEws that do try our best to post facts. Such as Bjarni max, Mike UK Nordic Analyst, Brumley, Niels and the others that I do not remember now but just excuse me no insults intended.
“despite the GBP 550 millions sitting in Singer and Friedlander under control of UK Treasury — hope things will be better now Darling is gone.”
As KSFIoM depositors now know, there is no cash in KSF London ‘under treasury control’. It was lent out or stolen by the Icelandic mafia.
>Any decisive action taken to repay the creditors of Landsbanki and Kaupthing? Nearly 2 years later and I’m still waiting for my money.
Kaupthing Singer Friendlander Isle of Man savers should have got back a percentage of they money back back ( despite the GBP 550 millions sitting in Singer and Friedlander under control of UK Treasury — hope things will be better now Darling is gone. I doubt that new man in charge can be any worse although I think this Danny Alexander is not as good as that David Laws would have been in position from what I do read. )
http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/Pages/2010/July/6July2010.asp
” KSF IOM 6 JULY 2010
Third distribution
The Joint Liquidators are pleased to announce that a third distribution of 11.1% will be paid on 9 July 2010 to all creditors whose claims have been agreed. This will bring the total distributions to date to 51.1%. ”
http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/Pages/2010/June/30June2010.asp
KSF IOM 30 JUNE 2010
Depositors Compensation Scheme
The Isle of Man Depositors Compensation Scheme has updated its website. A new facility has been provided to allow DCS claimants to view the transactions on their claim account. This may be accessed from the appropriate link on the Claimant Summary using existing logon details.
Importantly, the Scheme Manager has stated that no new claims will be accepted by the DCS after 27 November 2010. This represents an absolute cut-off date. Further details can be found at http://www.dcs.im. ”
As to Landsbanki Guernsey :
http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/services/corporate-finance/reorganisation-services/administrations/landsbanki-guernsey-limited-in-administration/updates/649aa0fa94049210VgnVCM100000ba42f00aRCRD.htm
As Bjarni does say :
” As with any large bankruptcy, there are lot of people that have lost all their money, both inside and outside Iceland. The banks resolution/winding-up committees host creditor meetings and publish regular reports on their progress.. “
“My family and I lost most of our life savings due to bad administration and corruption on your side.”
A large amount of the fault lies with you or your IFA for putting ‘most’ of your life savings in a high risk location.
A fundamental principle of saving is to spread the risk around different investment vehicles. Icelandic banks accounts should have been a very small part of it – up to the level of depositors protection to be exact.
To j:
As far as I know, almost all depositors of the old Icelandic banks have already been paid out in their respective countries, with few exceptions (for example depositors with over 100K Euros in the Netherlands).
You do not mention in your comment exactly how you were invested with Landsbanki and Kaupthing, but it sounds like you are being treated as an ordinary creditor. According to the resolution committees, it will take about 10 years for each of the old bankrupt banks to be wound up and their creditors to be paid out. Most of the old banks assets are loans that will have to be collected over time, to maximize their value for the creditors.
As with any large bankruptcy, there are lot of people that have lost all their money, both inside and outside Iceland. The banks resolution/winding-up committees host creditor meetings and publish regular reports on their progress that you can find here:
http://www.kaupthing.com/?pageid=4131
http://www.lbi.is/creditorinformation/
http://www.glitnirbank.com/
Trying to come to Iceland to “fetch” your money, is unfortunately not going to help much, as all creditors have to be treated according to Icelandic bankruptcy laws.
http://eng.domsmalaraduneyti.is/laws-and-regulations/english/nr/6570
(see articles 109-115 for priority ranking of claims).
Did anything materialise?
Any decisive action taken to repay the creditors of Landsbanki and Kaupthing? Nearly 2 years later and I’m still waiting for my money. My family and I lost most of our life savings due to bad administration and corruption on your side.
I worked for every cent of the money invested in your country.
I want it back and will come to fetch it.